Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

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Saffron
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Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Saffron » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:47 pm

The hard hat has been reached for s;.. s;.. s;..

If I sound a bit vague with some bits here its because I want to be vague to avoid any chance of the lady and club being identified and causing her further problems.

I was on the Rodney Cook Charity Rally today and speaking to one lady and she said how hard she had been trying to get a permission and the number of refusals (mainly letters and e-mails) without a single success was frightening. In this case it was because all the local landowners already had detectorists (and very few will allow a second on if they already have one).

She is a member of a "Traditional club", and its is VERY anti "pay to dig" groups ..... knowing the views of some forum members on these to avoid going off subject can we please not start debating these groups ::g

But due to lack of her own permission she goes detecting with a "pay to dig" group. However the club is so anti these groups that she does not tell other club members.

But two senior members of the club between them have access to well over 200 farms !!. Obviously other club members will also have access to local farms. So its not surprising that she can not gain access to land as the vast bulk of it is tied up by members of her traditional club (so as they have their own permissions they can afford to be anti "pay to dig").

I fully understand why a landowner who already has a detectorist is unwilling to let others detect. One permission I have is for where the owner has land in two blocks. When I asked for permission I asked for the one block only, thinking I might ask for the other in the future, and was told "Yes that is fine for there, but I already have a detectorist on the other part of my land". Being "old school" I would not want to upset the other detectorist so have never asked, and if I had would not have been surprised to be told "No".

As has been said many times, getting the first permission is always the hardest, then word of mouth from the first landowner can get additional access.

So when you hear of detectorists with over 1,000 acres (as some forum members have stated in the past) or having permission for over 100 farms is this fair?. Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed of themselves hogging so much land where they know they will never be able to detect it all?.

Evan



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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Easylife » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:26 am

Saffron wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:47 pm
Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed of themselves hogging so much land where they know they will never be able to detect it all?
Evan
Surely that is down to the landowners decision alone? I only gain more land when my existing is getting tired, but I have no control over whether the farmer actually chooses to let other detectorists on it or not, but can only hope that they don't? But as it happens my farmer will now not allow anyone else on their land unless they are my guest, which is quite nice feedback. I could of course go on a mission to bag 1000's of acres but that's just not my style.
When approaching such landholders as you mention and being told that they already have somebody detecting their land, I always can't resist asking the simple question of when was the last time that they were there? To which the usual reply is that they have not been for quite some time! Well is that not a leverage point? :D ::g
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:02 am

I have over a thousand acres now and potentially access to another 60,000. So am I a land hogger?

But I could never detect it all on my own and have never asked or expected exclusive rights. Indeed the vast majority of my permissions are shared. One, of 350 acres, is shared with two others and the best one, over 650 acres, with 3 others. If they don’t like me detecting with them (or visa versa) then a complaint could be lodged but I guess the complainant would be told if they don’t like it...

If any of the land owners have said no because they have already given permission to me they will be doing that because they see it as a good excuse, not because I expect it.

However, saying that, when I started with small permissions of less than 5-10 acres I would have been mightily annoyed to share them. That’s too crowded. In fact up to 50 acres - that’s one big field - it becomes difficult :-L

This has been discussed many times and everyone defends their actions. There is no simple answer.

But I will argue there is undetected land out there. There are lots of land owners who have never been asked if anyone can detect, but most people just go for the obvious farmers. I get told ‘it’s easy for you because you are a woman’. Is it? I have had my knock backs too and have done door knocking on stranger’s doors. But I’m pretty successful because I’ve spent lots of hours researching and go for the less obvious stuff. And, before anyone says but where I live all the land is owned by a few big estates, round Oxford it certainly isn’t easy as most land is college or church land and very much off limits.

Next time a landowner says they already have someone detecting though ask the simple question ‘do you think they’d mind sharing the land with me?’ You never know they may say ‘no’ ;)
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Dave The Slave » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:38 am

200 farms is excessive.
Detecting once a week would take 4 years to visit each one once.
One farm with hundreds of acres is not the same as the landowner may only want one person on there. Having access to 2 fields, I have asked on a couple of occasions, to bring someone along for a one off dig, to which I normally don`t get a reply, where as they are happy for my son to come along during half terms. They simply don`t want strangers wandering across THEIR land.
Was at Rodney Cook also yesterday, all that land would be a lifetimes worth of detecting.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by jcmaloney » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:15 am

Re-adjust the thought process and keep asking, its what the "experienced" detectorists have done.

Over time they have built trust and rapport that suits their landowners, why should they "give it up" ?

Once you establish that it just grows over time.

When I moved from Essex I handed over two permissions, about 1200 acres all in, just outside Colchester to "newbies".

Both had very simple rules. 1.Show us what you find,"junk" as well. 2. Text before you go on. 3. Don`t go on seeded.

It took about 3 months for them both to lose those farms for various reasons, yet both those farmers will still let me on.

Can`t blame me for that. ::g
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Pete E » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:17 am

Interesting question...

I suppose another aspect is that its handy to have what might seem a lot of ground to allow you to work around the presence of stock/crops ect. Plus I don't like to constantly detect on one farm in case I out stay my welcome so to speak..

Personally, I would also prefer to have several small farms rather than one huge one...
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by garrettoldboy » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:21 am

hello, i think a lot of detectorists are reluctant to share permissions, or just in case the guest finds something special, i know farmers who get bombarded with requests to allow detecting, some have banned detecting as not told of any finds, some worth a great deal of money so lost a 50 % share, i let a few come with me but 1 was always going awol on a different field that was out of bounds so i stopped that, i use to belong to a lot of clubs or groups but so much of their land was taken over by these over payed detecting companies, i dont bother with any rallies or such like, i can understand how the lady feels as 1 club i was in had members with lots of permissions and some even night hawked, talking of hawking yesterday i caught a day hawker, just parked up and started detecting, hardly spoke any english,

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by pengles » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:27 am

It is a tough one. I am a solo detectorist and all of my permissions are within/around the village I live in. I have one farm with over 900 acres that has had several DT's on it for over 20 yrs. Due to the fact that in all of that time nobody has shown the farmer any finds he will not allow new DT's. I do take stuff of note to him and he is genuinely interested. On speaking to other DT's whilst out I know that years ago they were pulling out Roman gold and silver along with other artefacts, although, of course, the farmer is not aware. No plough policy means that what is in reach (not a lot now) has rapidly diminished. I have another farm around 90 acres. This particular farmer allows more or less anyone in the village to detect it and is not really interested in what comes up (unless of course there is financial gain to be made). For two years I've been trying to get permission for a 1000 acre farm just behind my house. The owner only lets two people detect it. I sat down with him a few months ago, had a coffee and a chat and he presented me with a map of the entire farm, giving me permission on the spot. As a 'thank you' yesterday I took him a few really nice hammered coins and an artefact from his fields with which he seemed genuinely pleased. He did stipulate that he only wanted me on the land, absolutely no one else would get permission and would I politely challenge anyone else I might see. Now I regularly get asked by people if they can come out with me for a session, and unfortunately have to decline as it would mean that I would probably lose the permission. I must admit, sometimes I do feel a little guilty having around 1000 acres almost to myself. In total I have 5 farms and various scattered fields, pastures and enclosures. As much as I'd love to take someone else along I really can't lose the goodwill of the landowners.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by garrettoldboy » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:43 am

pengles wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:27 am
It is a tough one. I am a solo detectorist and all of my permissions are within/around the village I live in. I have one farm with over 900 acres that has had several DT's on it for over 20 yrs. Due to the fact that in all of that time nobody has shown the farmer any finds he will not allow new DT's. I do take stuff of note to him and he is genuinely interested. On speaking to other DT's whilst out I know that years ago they were pulling out Roman gold and silver along with other artefacts, although, of course, the farmer is not aware. No plough policy means that what is in reach (not a lot now) has rapidly diminished. I have another farm around 90 acres. This particular farmer allows more or less anyone in the village to detect it and is not really interested in what comes up (unless of course there is financial gain to be made). For two years I've been trying to get permission for a 1000 acre farm just behind my house. The owner only lets two people detect it. I sat down with him a few months ago, had a coffee and a chat and he presented me with a map of the entire farm, giving me permission on the spot. As a 'thank you' yesterday I took him a few really nice hammered coins and an artefact from his fields with which he seemed genuinely pleased. He did stipulate that he only wanted me on the land, absolutely no one else would get permission and would I politely challenge anyone else I might see. Now I regularly get asked by people if they can come out with me for a session, and unfortunately have to decline as it would mean that I would probably lose the permission. I must admit, sometimes I do feel a little guilty having around 1000 acres almost to myself. In total I have 5 farms and various scattered fields, pastures and enclosures. As much as I'd love to take someone else along I really can't lose the goodwill of the landowners.
hello, excellent post pengles, back in the 1980s a farm i know use to have a group detect, owner never see any finds always told not much found, make of that as you wish

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by pengles » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:20 am

Garretoldboy. Yes, and I think therein lies the problem. No one really wants to hand over stuff that they have spent endless hours looking for after breaking your back digging countless holes full of lead rubbish and shotties, but the landowners aren't stupid and know that every now and then something must turn up that is a 'keeper' and I feel that they sometimes think they're being taken for a ride. Surely it can only be a good thing just to pop along and show/give them some stuff every now and then. It shows that a) you have been using their generous offer to walk their land and b)you can be trusted. Likewise, if I'm out and a family out for a walk etc ask (and they generally do) if I've found anything, I'm more than happy to show and explain what any finds might be. If I have Victorian, Edwardian pennies, musket balls or the like I'll probably just hand them over to give to their kids. If you simply get a permission and never make a point of seeing the farmer for an update again it's no wonder they are reticent to give out further permissions.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by kenleyboy » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:45 am

A very good post and one that no doubt will create some hot debate . Maybe "some" experienced detectorists should be ashamed but not all and likewise "some" inexperienced detectorists could also fall into this category whether it is land grabbing or general behaviour out on the field .
J.C.Maloneys post is an example in question , two detectorists losing the land for what ever reason within a few months , no doubt not playing the game .

Tying the land up is a bit of an issue but at the end of the day the choice is down to the landowner on what decisions are made and what we see as unfair and in some cases very understandable , lies with the owner . I personally know some detectorists in the hobby who have land that they have not been on for three or more years ! It is these fellas that will end up losing their land when the small groups of permission hunters start waving the pound notes about . This exact thing happened only recently between the two clubs that I am a member of and has caused some ill feeling where one member lost his permission to one of the clubs . Without going into any detail as I am sure there are some members on here who know the full story but the way it was done did not sit well with me and has questioned my own feelings on my membership of the club in question . I certainly will not on a moral stand point go on a club dig on this particular persons permission , I know the guy as he is a fellow club member and it would not sit right with me especially the upset that it caused , but thats just my choice .

Hunting for land is going on all the time , take a club for example with 50 members . They need land for digs .Those within the club appointed to get land will no doubt tread on a few members toes and how many members are going to disclose their permission contacts to the land hunters and if they have any morals will avoid a particular Farm etc . I see two sides here but the reality is once again the choice of the land owner and if you haven't been seen on the land for so many years then expect to lose it especially with the lure of cash .

My permission is 100 acres , more than enough for me and also a smaller one of about 20 acres but if the land owner decides to allow another person on then so be it . Whether I like it or not , I dont own the land , it is not mine and I have no say in the matter . I got my permission because the regular blokes had not been on the land for two years , so I got lucky and stepped into their place , thats how it goes , they move on and I move in and so it goes . If I had a thousand plus acres at my disposal and there were a few others on the land I would not have any issue , that to me is plenty of acreage to last me a lifetime and if I have to share then it would not bother me at all . I think if you have that sort of land to yourself and do not use it then it is open for others to step in and take it and from what I understand it seems there are plenty out there with the readies to "buy" the land and take it whether it is used or not . Landowers choice !
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by dig-dog » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:41 am

I have a large permission only minutes from my house. The owner has 4 farms so he lives on one, rents out two and has contractors farm this one. There is a track that runs from the back of the farm to a permanent, shall we say caravan site. There have been lots of incidents on the farm in the past so he likes me out on his fields just to keep an eye out and inform him of anyone seen on his land. He once got taken to court by a dog walker who strayed onto his land and injured himself. He will only allow me on it and is not interested in anything I find unless it is of great value. :)
My point is, it’s the farmer’s choice who he lets on his land and there could be a lot of reasons why he will only allow one person. No shame here.

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by SuperRed » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:46 am

I have four ‘regular’ permissions and a couple that allow me to search in specific circumstances. I live in an area that is notoriously difficult to obtain permissions, with the majority of the land being owned by either university colleges, a large scientific company or historic trusts.

The problem with the premise of the question is that it fails to take into account that it could mean so many different things to so many individuals. For example, are we talking about people who are willing to ‘work’ a permission, stick to the rules and be content to be satisfied with days of nothing but scrap, or are we taking into account those who just want to secure permission, sweep the fields a couple of times and then move on to somewhere that may be productive. Often leaving a bad taste in the mouth of the landowner. They are all out there.

Of my four main fields:
One is 10 acres and by far my most productive. Nobody else has a snowball’s chance in hell of gaining permission. The landowner has rejected numerous requests over the years and would never have allowed people on the land. I have my horses there, with very expensive equipment and equine buildings. CCTV everywhere and even if the landowner succumbed my co-tenant and I would veto it for the sake of the horses. If I didn’t find the history under the ground, it would just remain.
Two others are of a similar size. Again, the landowners have rejected other requests and stipulated that I can’t take guests with me. They are family friends.
One other is 80 acres and the elderly chap who owns it lives on his own and is a bit of a ‘pushover’. He has allowed rambling groups and parish festivals in the past. I made it clear to him that I wasn’t seeking exclusive permission and also asked if I could take guests on, with the possibility of a club dig at some stage. He had no problem with that, as long as I take responsibility for them. Selfish? No. Entirely altruistic? No… I like company and a bit of banter sometimes, and it is his land after all.

I was ‘bitten’ back in the 80’s when I invited two detectorists from a club I guested at. I lived in London and permissions were hard to come by and the ‘rules’ on common land etc., were ambiguous. I secured permission on a 200 acre farm where I had found some of my best milled silver, and stipulated that they could only detect when I was present and that nobody else was allowed on the fields when a shoot was taking place. You guessed it: they ignored this and my partner and I lost the permission.

Newbies these days often seem to have a sense of entitlement (much like the population in general) and don’t really think outside of the box. From the first time I picked up a detector I have asked friends if I could detect in their garden. My first ever find was a lovely cartwheel penny when ‘testing’ my detector in a friend’s garden. Holidays: If you are booking a holiday cottage/caravan either at home or abroad, have you asked if they would allow you to detect? I have done this for over 30 years and picked up some of my best single finds in the past. They invariably say “yes” if asked nicely… they want the booking, and stipulate the same ‘pay for what you damage’ conditions as they do when asking about my dogs. Have newbies considered looking for local planning applications? I missed a great opportunity this year due to health issues when a guy new to the village bought a mill house and was renovating it and the land. Ok, gaining permission was largely due to my wife being a parish councillor and me being PC web developer, but these are opportunities and a short permission is better than none. I do have sympathy for new detectorists (especially as few people warn that the ‘best’ detector is useless without land) and I would invite someone I trusted on to my permissions if permitted.

I have no problem at all with established rallies run by experienced people and many are a great entry to the hobby, with the social side being as important to the finding. If you want to look for those who should be ashamed, it is the growing number of ‘cowboy outfits’ who continually seek new land in order to satisfy participants who ‘demand’ to find something to justify payment.

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by shaggybfc » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:26 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:02 am
potentially access to another 60,000.
Now that’s some serious landage.... you could donate 1 acre to every Detectorist in the UK ::g
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by littleboot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:56 pm

I think the word here is balance.
I have seen some people acquire permissions as some kind of sport in itself and then have a quick waft and conclude they have found the goodies and go onto another.
Quite a lot of farmers have given permission and will say so...but often they haven't seen the detectorist for months or even years. So it is, I think, worth explaining your situation a bit more fully to a farmer and positioning it that maybe the detectorist has retired/ given up/ moved on/ (died? x;) etc and if he isn't seen about then perhaps he could consider re-allocating it and to bear you in mind.

I have also seen what Brad describes above very eloquently....the 'entitlement' of some Newbies. I sometimes get the impression that they buy the kit and think it should come supplied with permission and a map with an X marking the spot 'Here Be Ye Treasure!'.

In France, I have access to thousands of acres. I never expect exclusive rights...it is simply that there is nobody else at present detecting these farms. Some I have never visited yet
Others, the ones close to home, where I can have a pootle and walk home for a drink or meal etc, I have 'done' countless times.
I recently found a nice coin which I had clearly missed on the back field....the one I have 'done' more than any others. I have used 4 different machines on it (and Pete has used a couple other ones as well) in the 17 years I have 'done' it. And I get a Nox, it is newly ploughed for the first time in about 6 years and Bingo. A couple of years ago I found a Stater on it in an area I thought I'd done to death.
People need to be patient and bide their time. Land comes up again for availability and, as Brad's post excellently summed up....one has to be alive to opportunities rather than moan about what you can't get on.

The lady mentioned in the OP is clearly doing something wrong. I have said before, ladies generally have a much easier time getting permission. (I know this because Pete used to get far more knockbacks than I did from people who would then grant me access) It is all very well feeling sorry for someone and accepting their version of a situation but, in reality, there is something they need to address themselves. Often when people start to 'put the blame' onto other people it means they are not doing enough to examine things they can do better themselves. It may be, in this case, that she isn't having a proper conversation with the right people. Letters only do so much. Talking is much better.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Wuntbedruv » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:16 pm

Big difference between intentionally going out to 'lock up' all the land and happening to ask permission with a farmer who only wants to let one person on at a time.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by SuperRed » Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:43 pm

littleboot wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:56 pm
I think the word here is balance.
Thanks Jan, and yes... everything is a balance or compromise. Just to add: I don't have a large garden, and if a random person knocked on my door asking to detect on it, my response would be a polite 'no'. On the other hand, if the guy who leveled my lawn in the summer at a decent price had asked if he could run a detector over it I would have had no problem at all. For those seeking permission I would advise exploring every possibility, including any skills you could offer.

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by greatchi » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:56 pm

Hi

Before I started metal detecting I spend a whole year reading forums, watching youtube and talking to people about it.
I noticed many many posts from people saying they could not get a permission for various reasons and knew that when I started I would probably have to do beaches and pay to dig somewhere, which is what I did.
I also found it difficult to find a permission and was knocked back many times which is disheartening
Then by chance a friend of my son mentioned a farmer he knew and asked me if I wanted him to ask the farmer. I didn't hold out much hope.
Low and behold he said "help yourself". I was dumbfounded. 350 acres across 15 fields. I drove to the farm and personally thanked the farmer.
After a week or so I knew I would not be able to do it all myself so I asked the farmer if I could take someone else along with me. He said no problem
So I offered the land out to members here who didn't have any themselves and got a few responses. 3 have been a number of times and the others have not responded to messages I sent.

My point is, you never know what the farmer will say until you ask.

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by oldartefact » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:20 pm

My view is that without legislation .. everything is fair in detecting, one makes their own success, as one makes their own lack of success. A guy who has 200 permissions is entitled to those, just as much as the guy with one, or no, permission.. there is no right, there is no wrong, the only thing that creates misery, is the old enemy ... envy and lethargy.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by steve r » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:07 pm

oldartefact wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:20 pm
My view is that without legislation .. everything is fair in detecting, one makes their own success, as one makes their own lack of success. A guy who has 200 permissions is entitled to those, just as much as the guy with one, or no, permission.. there is no right, there is no wrong, the only thing that creates misery, is the old enemy ... envy and lethargy.
I think you have hit the nail on the head there mate, you only get what you work for. I'm up to 27 NO's now, but have got 1 permission on an overgrown old orchard of about 8/10 acres. And I am lucky enough to be invited to the permission my friend greatchi has. I'm still looking and asking, and hopefully 1 day I can have the pleasure of inviting greatchi to my permission.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by geoman » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:37 pm

This topic has been aired a few times before with similar comments.

Many seasoned detectorists will have had experience of the land bankers and the problems of sharing land with others which more often than not ends in tears. I have had my fair share of problems and have searched on my own for a decade or so now having been shafted by so called friends/newbies who want me to show them the ropes - never never again.

As for land access i have several farms over a range of soil types, landscape and areas and as far as i am aware they will be no go areas for the door knockers not from my actions, but the landowners own preferences. I dont argue with shooting restrictions or not going on cropped land and so on. Permissions are hard to find and very easy to lose often through the actions of others.

Head down and dont look for problems.

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Saffron » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:41 pm

Well it seems I did not need the hard hat after all ::g ::g

At this stage the thread has had 19 replies, the bulk of which were long and very well considered and took more than a couple of minutes to type up so everybodies input is very much appreciated.

It is an awkward one.

Myself I have had the "No, sorry I already have somebody detecting my land" knockback, but I could well understand how that detectorist might have felt suddenly seeing somebody new on "his land".

The one big issue is how detecting works. If a farmer has a long stretch of coarse fishing river then letting several anglers on it is very different to detecting as every time an angler catches a nice fish they will return it to the river where another angler can catch it again; however, if a detectorist makes a nice find they will not bury it for another detectorist to find!. So having more than one detectorist can be an issue for the original one.

By allowing only a single detectorist the landowner is able to better build up the trust, or realise he needs to get rid of them!. They also appreciate the point I made above about items only being able to be found once, so could be trying to be fair to the original detectorist. Additionally if they allow more than one detectorist and find holes not filled, scrap left on the surface, or worse such as damaged fences then they do not know which to blame where if they have a single detectorist they know the culprit.

From the detectorists view I suspect a lot depends on how much land you have. If you have 1,000 acres then another detectorist should not be an issue, but if you only have a 10 acre paddock it certainly would be.

Once again many thanks for all your input.

A small final plea, should you realise you do not require a permission for any reason could you please let the landowner know as it might then free it for somebody who has no permissions. Thanks.

Evan

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by kenleyboy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:58 pm

Well it seems I did not need the hard hat after all ::g ::g

A well thought out post , no need for any hard hats , just one person airing their point of view and very thought provoking .

The issue with angling rights on landowners land is very similar to metal detecting as far as other bodies trying to "buy" the rights . I see many hobbies run in a similar vein , those who have and those who have not and want ! Money talks as we all know and if there are rewards for individuals then the loss holds no bounds and morals go right out the window .

I have been around angling all my life and a small group of us had rights to an undisclosed and historical water in Sussex . There were 12 of us and we each paid in a sum per year to have the rights to fish and enjoy the surroundings , this arrangement held for many years and subject to inflation small increases per annum were to be expected . I learnt a very hard lesson one which strangely I am thankful towards , I grew up and lost the shackles of naivety when I realised that there are those out there who are not decent or trustworthy and I also realised that nothing lasts for ever , a sad truism .
We lost this little oasis when a much larger amount of monies was offered to the Landowner by another group . It was such a vast sum of money that none of us could justify the expense , basically we were bought out with the I want it at all costs approach .

I see this same thing happening within the metal detecting community and it basically boils down to pure greed and selfishness an attitude that society seems to be so full of nowadays . However , the light at the end of the tunnel is that there are some decent sorts so not all bad , just part of life .
I am mindful that my permission may well be lost one day , who knows but I shall enjoy it while I can .
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by slowsweep » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:35 pm

getting permissions is the hardest part of the hobby, why should ppl feel ashamed for putting in the graft to gain land ?

its up to the individual to keep asking until they are successful, if the land owner says no then move on and try again.

imo you cant have too much land, having multiple options is a must in this game.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by oldartefact » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:24 pm

Saffron wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:41 pm

Myself I have had the "No, sorry I already have somebody detecting my land" knockback, but I could well understand how that detectorist might have felt suddenly seeing somebody new on "his land".
If I were a landowner I would be tempted, out of politeness, to use this excuse to refuse permission to strangers, whether I actually had another detectorist on my land or not. On the other hand, as a landowner> I would not refuse a request from someone who has proved their metal by showing that they are trustworthy and respectable, and who are prepared to give more than they receive.. Strangers get told to walk ... Friends, relatives, and other selfless trustworthy souls get a Yes
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by oldartefact » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:34 pm

kenleyboy wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:58 pm
Well it seems I did not need the hard hat after all ::g ::g

I have been around angling all my life and a small group of us had rights to an undisclosed and historical water in Sussex . There were 12 of us and we each paid in a sum per year to have the rights to fish and enjoy the surroundings , this arrangement held for many years and subject to inflation small increases per annum were to be expected . I learnt a very hard lesson one which strangely I am thankful towards , I grew up and lost the shackles of naivety when I realised that there are those out there who are not decent or trustworthy and I also realised that nothing lasts for ever , a sad truism .
We lost this little oasis when a much larger amount of monies was offered to the Landowner by another group . It was such a vast sum of money that none of us could justify the expense , basically we were bought out with the I want it at all costs approach .

I see this same thing happening within the metal detecting community and it basically boils down to pure greed and selfishness an attitude that society seems to be so full of nowadays . However , the light at the end of the tunnel is that there are some decent sorts so not all bad , just part of life .
I am mindful that my permission may well be lost one day , who knows but I shall enjoy it while I can .
I guess that I take a hard-hat approach.. lets suppose the farmer has this choice ... give a permission to a chap who will pay £0, or the chap who by his own good fortune, is able to offer £1,000 for the same. I wouldn't be blaming the guy for offering a grand, just as I wouldnt blame the farmer for accepting it. Maybe I would feel sorry for the guy who got squeezed out.. but that is just how the world works.. Detecting is no different to any other past time or commodity.. the guy who is prepared to pay the most, usually (not always) gets offered the most.
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by geoman » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:10 pm

Good reasoned argument and comment rather than some of the heated exchanges that have occured on this topic before.

Enjoy the hobby whilst you can. In its current form it is not going to last too long as the knives are out from its detractors to curb the freedoms we all currently take for granted.

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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by kenleyboy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:09 pm

I guess that I take a hard-hat approach.. lets suppose the farmer has this choice ... give a permission to a chap who will pay £0, or the chap who by his own good fortune, is able to offer £1,000 for the same. I wouldn't be blaming the guy for offering a grand, just as I wouldnt blame the farmer for accepting it. Maybe I would feel sorry for the guy who got squeezed out.. but that is just how the world works.. Detecting is no different to any other past time or commodity.. the guy who is prepared to pay the most, usually (not always) gets offered the most.

I totally get that , it is indeed part of life . If you are fortunate to have money as your leverage fair play , I just think there are certain ways of going about these things but what some perceive as fair play , others do not .
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:15 pm

Please remember this is not about paying for land - it’s about experienced detectorists’ with too much land.

Please keep it on topic or we’ll need to start getting the super large eraser to remove off topic responses. I hate doing that - it leaves bits of rubber all over the floor which I then have to hoover up 8-}
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Re: Should some experienced detectorists be ashamed?

Post by kenleyboy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:04 pm

Oxgirl36 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:15 pm
Please remember this is not about paying for land - it’s about experienced detectorists’ with too much land.

Please keep it on topic or we’ll need to start getting the super large eraser to remove off topic responses. I hate doing that - it leaves bits of rubber all over the floor which I then have to hoover up 8-}
Oops , sorry Oxgirl , slapped wrists ! :D
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