Coins or not and next steps?

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Coins or not and next steps?

Post by WVAM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:43 pm

I got a chance on some newly disced fields but only for a few days until they start drilling. To make the most of it I was using the T2 in all metal - it's a bit deeper but signals that read say 72 in one direction were reading 10 at 90 degrees. The fields are generally quiet and signals very jumpy but a few bits came up.
What are your thoughts on the below. Is it a small stack of coins (or something else) and if so, anyone managed to get them apart?
Thanks.
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by andy1973 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:57 pm

Ok please correct me if I'm wrong, I wouldn't do anything yet. if all are silver hammered coins, that would mean theyre classed as treasure. id get some full advice on this before doing anything to separate them.

Only my opinion, one of the more experienced members will correct me or confirm.
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Incognito » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:01 pm

It looks like a stack to me :-/

I was reading on one early hoard archaeologists used formic acid to separate the coins, there must be info online about what techniques are best.

::g

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Pete E » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:08 pm

Looks like a stack of hammered to me also..

Just thinking out loud here but I wonder if electrolysis might help break down the crud holding them together?

That said, probably best to contact your FLO and follow their advice...If it goes through the Treasure process, the FLO might try to separate them to enable a true valuation...
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:11 pm

Please don’t separate them, they are far more special as a stack. And as treasure you shouldn’t anyway really :-L

I know Littleboot found a stack in France and had difficulty separating them anyway. Here’s the thread viewtopic.php?f=122&t=111602&p=993810&h ... ck#p993810
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by shaggybfc » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:13 pm

A big hammer would sort them out.....





only joking - I'd get them reviewed properly y the experts
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Buriedbytime&dust » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:20 pm

Pete E wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:08 pm
Looks like a stack of hammered to me also..

Just thinking out loud here but I wonder if electrolysis might help break down the crud holding them together?

That said, probably best to contact your FLO and follow their advice...If it goes through the Treasure process, the FLO might try to separate them to enable a true valuation...

They'll almost certainly be disclaimed before reaching the TVC, so will be returned to the finder as they are, but will have to be declared as Treasure.

It's a very interesting find though, and I think I'd be inclined to leave it as it is, but it would be very tempting to try and separate them (after Treasure process), if only to find out if all of the coins are the same!
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:20 pm

That’s cool,but worth recording as is I think...then seperate has
You can always display them stacked up again :D
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by WVAM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:27 pm

Thanks people - FLO it is then.

Now I'm really disappointed on two counts:
1. The post has been up more than a micro second and no Allectus for an ID.
2. Don't you lot have any curiosity - don't you want to know what's inside :))

I think one of the coins in the middle will be of another metal and causing the rust-like reaction. There's certainly a thicker one in there. Just soaking in some warm DI water at the moment - just to see what happens.

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:38 pm

Plenty curious sir!
It’s going to bother me till they come apart :D
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Allectus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:44 pm

Early class(possibly 3/4) Edward I London penny. They've been in contact with iron. ::g

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Allectus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:47 pm

Allectus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:44 pm
Early class(possibly 3/4) Edward I London penny. They've been in contact with iron. ::g

A ;)
The middle piece looks thicker, possibly iron & the source of the rust? Very strange. x;
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Lowland » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:47 pm

Could be a cauldron full of them just waiting ::g
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by WVAM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 pm

Allectus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:44 pm
Early class(possibly 3/4) Edward I London penny. They've been in contact with iron. ::g

A ;)
Thanks A - were you off making the tea.

There's a much thicker coin in the middle which looks to be the culprit - on one edge it looks like liquid metal has been used so I suspect they won't be coming apart - well not yet ;)

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Incognito » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:58 pm

Magnet test ?

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Allectus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:00 pm

I bet there's more there. The one in the bottom pic looks too clean as if it's recently come away from another....interesting! ::g

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by WVAM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:10 pm

Allectus wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:00 pm
I bet there's more there. The one in the bottom pic looks too clean as if it's recently come away from another....interesting! ::g

A ;)
Now there's an interesting thought indeed ....... thanks for your help.

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by andy1973 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:13 pm

lol which means a trip back to find the rest ... good luck :)
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Oxgirl36 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:22 pm

WVAM wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:27 pm
Thanks people - FLO it is then.

Now I'm really disappointed on two counts:
1. The post has been up more than a micro second and no Allectus for an ID.
2. Don't you lot have any curiosity - don't you want to know what's inside :))

I think one of the coins in the middle will be of another metal and causing the rust-like reaction. There's certainly a thicker one in there. Just soaking in some warm DI water at the moment - just to see what happens.
I’d be desperate to separate them and would love you too as well but I suspect you’ll be sorry if you do.

Allectus makes a very good point. See if there are more! Don’t mess about separating them when you should be out looking for the rest. They might be singles too, to quench your curiosity ;)
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Fusion » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:42 pm

There's definitely one more out there, clear as anything. That chipping on the edge of the stack doesn't look promising, though, the remaining coin(s) could be broken into fragments.
A rather obvious question: Have you already dug the missing coin? Any recollection of one from that area, with a brown face and a silvery one ?

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by WVAM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:55 pm

Fusion, first time on the field.
Oxgirl, I do have a day job but I'll get back there soon.
Are there more? - well I might have found the dregs and someone else got the lions share. I don't think anyone else has permission but you never know.

Here's the state of play. The bulk of the stack is not going to come apart. The coins are "welded" at one edge so any attempt would probably break them. I'll ask some colleagues about what chemistry is going on and they may be able to help (after the FLO). Either way the reaction needs to be stopped to conserve what's left.

The top coin popped off in water and it looks like Allectus is right again. However, it also looks like some nasty chemistry going on so that needs to be stopped too.
Allectus - any more coin details to add please?

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Allectus » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:27 pm

3g or 4a. ::g

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by oldartefact » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Think your find qualifies as treasure ... so your FLO/Coroner will not take kindly to separating them, as one is potentially messing up history ... advice being to notify your FLO ... You have 14 days to do so and the clock is ticking ... next is to get back out there ... and recover the rest of the stack.
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by littleboot » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:34 pm

I eventually separated some be of my stack by soaking in citric acid
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Incognito » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:47 pm

I will guess one of the coins is copper, and that gives a galvanic reaction where the copper oxide plates the silver. It looks like iron rust but I think it is more likely copper, I am used to finding copper with dark brown patina and corrosion, not just the usual green types. So that will come off by various means if you decide to clean them, and I don't think it will cause damage in the meantime - was/is probably actually protecting the silver.

::g

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by WVAM » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:32 pm

Incognito wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:47 pm
I will guess one of the coins is copper, and that gives a galvanic reaction where the copper oxide plates the silver. It looks like iron rust but I think it is more likely copper, I am used to finding copper with dark brown patina and corrosion, not just the usual green types. So that will come off by various means if you decide to clean them, and I don't think it will cause damage in the meantime - was/is probably actually protecting the silver.

::g
Thanks, but I'm now not so sure about the middle coin. A close look at the surface shows what appears to be the silver growing from the surface:
Screen Shot 2019-10-09 at 17.26.14.png
The 1958 shilling was found a few yards away - the new 10p is for colour comparison. As all the surfaces that I can see of the stack are affected with both the brown colour and growth I suspect this may have more to do with the ground / agriculture.
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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by stanslad » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:42 pm

What a great & interesting find, well done,
wonder what the middle thicker looking coin is, I wonder if its a jetton, as they reckon they may have been used as coinage?
Hope there's more out there & good luck for finding them.
Clint ::g

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by dep1699 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:51 pm

They are Treasure for sure. I know a person that found it and it was actually classified as treasure.

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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by dep1699 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:55 pm


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Re: Coins or not and next steps?

Post by Incognito » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:01 am

I can't copy paste this so included at end is a photo of text. What likely happened is that copper, being the anode, allowed electromigration of silver from either its own composition or closest coin to migrate to the furthest cathode (silver). I guess old coins don't make good science experiments though so hopefully the flo will have a better idea what is what and what to do (now they seem welded together). I don't think they are going to change much in the meantime though, have been both dried and wet in a field for centuries ::g
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