Disc vs Notch

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ARCH
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Disc vs Notch

Post by ARCH » Sun May 05, 2019 7:59 pm

A very debatable subject I have been looking into and I am interested in peoples experience and knowledge on the matter……..

Firstly, are Notch and Discrimination the same ??

Secondly, do either have any effect on a machines performance ??

My current thought on the issue is that they are different……..

Meaning, when Discrimination is applied it effects a machines performance.

However when Notch is applied its different and does not affect a machines performance.
In Notch the target signal is put through a separate circuit than that of discrimination. Where the signal audio response is only masked to your ears. A glance at the screen will clarify this when a signal is being masked.

Any recommendations for literature or video links on the subject would be interesting ?
Any thoughts out there……………………?

Best Regards



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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Easylife » Mon May 06, 2019 2:30 am

Are you asking this for a specific purpose? x;
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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by ARCH » Mon May 06, 2019 6:21 am

I can see their purpose. But is there a diiference ?
i
e. If you set Disc 40 or Notch 40 is their any machine performance with either ?

Thanks

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Blackadder43 » Mon May 06, 2019 8:25 am

Just my opinion:
Notch was dreamt up purely for the American market
It is widely known that they do not have the same finds that we do
They do not find Hammered coinage as an example
They do however find a set and fully known set of coinage

But there is one constant, both UK and USA detectorists find ring pulls (this comparison will become apparent a few lines down)
When you notch a segment out it is precise to leave the areas in where their know finds will always sound off, but take away the areas they know finds come into and they dont want

For instance:
The ring pull is the bane of a detectorists life, wherever you are in the world
In the UK we cannot ignore them, if we do we stand the chance of ignoring hammered coins and Roman coins too
In America they can afford to ignore ringpulls as none of their coinage comes in that sprectrum
They notch the area that ringpulls are located on the spectrum out completely, a whole section

So in my opinion if you use notch in the UK you are risking notching out finds that you actually want to find
If that makes sense

My understanding is:
Notch is a group of numbers on the conductivity scale that gets blocked out in one setting
Discrimination is the skill of picking individual numbers or sections to tell your machine you do not want to be told about
Discrim has tonnes more finesse and is far more selective
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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Junior » Mon May 06, 2019 8:29 am

Don't bother with notch over here tooooo risky... ::g

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by ARCH » Mon May 06, 2019 3:32 pm

Ladies /Gents some good feedback. Most certainly thinking on it and just about decided to use Disc rather than Notch from now on........

Now then... Does Disc affect depth alone ,forgetting all other variants.

Moreover has anyone ever experiments to confirm the question...Or have you viewed any videos or literature ??

I was wondering a test bed would answer this question..........

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Mancave-man » Mon May 06, 2019 6:13 pm

Yes, the higher the discrimination the less the depth. Not by much though.

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Buriedbytime&dust » Mon May 06, 2019 8:43 pm

ARCH wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:21 am
I can see their purpose. But is there a diiference ?
i
e. If you set Disc 40 or Notch 40 is their any machine performance with either ?

Thanks

Notch was designed to blank out multiple small ranges, like ringpulls etc. on U.S. parks, not as an alternative to discrimination. As we have good targets that register in the same range, we can't take advantage of it.

Andy Sabisch says in his book that, unlike discrimination, Notch doesn't affect depth, but I assume that statement refers to the blocking out of very small ranges, rather than a blanket coverage of 0-40.

If Notch had all of the advantages of discrimination, but with none of the downsides, it would surely make the discrimination function redundant and everyone would be using Notch instead, which they aren't.

Notching/discriminating to 40 would be a brave move anyway. There are plenty of good targets that hit in the 30s ::g

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Digiffys » Mon May 06, 2019 9:05 pm

Is there something in particular your meaning to notch out at 40? Reason I ask is there's so many targets lower and past 40 that are decent.To me discrimination up to 40 or notchhing 40 is really risky...On uk soil/sites you shouldn't even be thinking about it! Just to add a settled test bed is the way to go if you fancy a tinker with best settings etc in my opinion. Air tests are rubbish in an attempt to gain any decisive conclusions ::g
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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Oxgirl36 » Tue May 07, 2019 12:13 am

This might help...

XP Deus !!£$ I use the HOT programme on 17khz, reactivity at 2.5 on v5.21 with the X35 11” coil

Hammered silver 2019 - 11 :D

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by mariothemoss » Tue May 07, 2019 8:31 am

Not seen that one thanks for link,May try it to eliminate pesky coke ::g

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Copperballs1 » Tue May 07, 2019 1:32 pm

Only used notch on really heavily invested coke sites where coke was coming in at around 26- 28. Still comes through but as a ‘crackly’ broken signal as opposed to a dig me signal which helps identify it. Never had a find under or by coke so don’t know how this would affect a good find with a target ID in the 80’s. Oh, I have also used it for sites with excessive moo tubes but this can be dangerous as good finds come under this ID. x;

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by littleboot » Tue May 07, 2019 1:51 pm

I agree with Blackadders very comprehensive explanation and assessment of notching...I.E. don't. I only ever notch 'in' I never notch 'out'. For example, on the Nox All Metal is a noisy distraction BUT I want to know when Iron is present. So I notch 'in' a couple of low tones instead of hearing it all.

Basically, you should aim to dispense with as much discrim as possible on UK/European permissions. Learn to hear the nuances of tones so you can lower it as much as you possibly can. Despite what some people and salespeople would have you think, every detector since the dawn of time has discriminated. Its just that some didn't have a fancy name for it, of a button to press or knob to twiddle. You simply learn to hear the difference.
It remains true that detectorists who have managed to learn the differences in the sounds are going to be able to simply detect without all this angst. Complicated settings and magic formulas always always come at a price. And that price is usually depth.
So...as little as possible of discrimination, and none whatsoever of Notching Out. It really is a simple business.
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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by Koala » Tue May 07, 2019 1:56 pm

I can see it being very useful near industrial units where the same scrap bits litter the ground in there 1000s.

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by ARCH » Tue May 07, 2019 4:53 pm

Thanks interesting and easy to follow video.

But the question still remains for me........

What would you use and why.

Disc 6

or

Notch 0-6

I am starting to wonder if they are the same ,just have different names and a good machine selling point.............?

Thanks in advance

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by john_t » Thu May 16, 2019 8:29 pm

same as, be careful with the notch just in case you miss something sweet!!!!!!!

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Re: Disc vs Notch

Post by mrix » Thu May 16, 2019 8:48 pm

ARCH wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:53 pm
Thanks interesting and easy to follow video.

But the question still remains for me........

What would you use and why.

Disc 6

or

Notch 0-6

I am starting to wonder if they are the same ,just have different names and a good machine selling point.............?

Thanks in advance

If you were say in a field and you had a problem with countless junk signal something like small fragments of foil and it was impossible to metal detect you might wish to notch these targets out completely, you basically get an average target number of a few of these finds and notch them out, its called notch as you are completely removing a notch of discrimination, unfortunately you also run the risk of removing other targets that are close or matched to the numbers of the junk foil.

But to get back to your question I believe Disc 6 and Notch 0-6 will achieve the same outcome.
Basically discrimination works always from 0 upwards but notch can remove chunks of discrimination anywhere desired.

mrix

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