Equinox Recovery Speed chats

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Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by mcgold8363 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:09 am

OK, so the recovery speed / Iron Bais is important but what does it actually mean?

So I'm detecting away with my Recovery Speed at 3 and the Iron Bias at 3, as per my initial set up.

What conditions as in what things would make you think, I can increase the recovery speed here to 5? or I can lower it too 1?

Also the same for Iron Bias, at what point do you think, I will put it up a notch here or I need to lower it down?

Thanks again guys.



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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 16, 2019 11:43 am

Bury a target or two and find out for yourself! :D

I'm not being glib here but it's the only way you'll find out for sure, as a general rule upping iron bias will mean you will miss more good targets that are in the vicinity of iron, the same is true to a lesser extent when you slow down the recovery speed. It all depends what attributes you value, my personal preference is for settings that pull finds from contaminated ground, if you have a clean site you might set things up differently and have a slow recovery speed and corresponding slow sweep to match, you will gain a fraction more depth but at the expense of vague responses and the greater risk of target masking.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Easylife » Thu May 16, 2019 12:16 pm

It's a good point as manufacturers do not give any real examples so can be a bit of trial and error to find what best suits you and your site. Iron bias is just a filter which has the real world effect of balance between depth and silencing iron chirps, I have not had the urge to increase Iron bias above 0, though it is a personal preference and lessens responses from iron. Reactivity of 4 is my baseline for average ground conditions, but will increase according to the degree of iron saturation present, or even decrease if the ground is extremely quiet.
I would not run recovery 3 with iron bias at 3 as it seems counter productive to an extent, though is completely fine for getting used to the Nox. The best way is to experiment with different settings over the same buried targets to see how they respond. ::g
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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by mcgold8363 » Thu May 16, 2019 12:27 pm

"I would not run recovery 3 with iron bias at 3 as it seems counter productive to an extent"

this came from Freds Thread? which is my starting point.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 16, 2019 12:37 pm

Indeed, the more "electronic filters" you apply the more chance of missing good targets, I notice that some on here run in all metal and then use high iron bias to counter the noise, this seems counter intuitive to me, you invite iron in by using all metal and then filter some out with iron bias!

A better way (if you like pulling nice targets out iron infested ground) is not to use any iron bias at all, dump all metal mode and notch IN some iron, this way you will not hear small nails etc but will hear bigger bits via signals that are broken, notchy, or have high tone falseing, the advantage here is target masking is much reduced and the machine is less likely to give an iffy signals on difficult but desirable targets.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Dave8472 » Thu May 16, 2019 12:50 pm

Be careful with those two settings as even small changes make a lot of difference.

Recovery speed increases make the target signal narrower and will be at the expense of smaller deeper items.

Iron bias is the trade off for an ID being treated as good or iron, the lower it is the more falsing you will get and dig more iron. It works both ways though, too high and in trash sites you may miss stuff.

There isn’t a right setting, but it depends on the site. Ideally small areas with a lot of trash need doing in a few different modes and settings.

On my pasture sites that are quite contaminated I have been using iron bias between 2 and 3. Recovery speed between 5 and 7. (Equinox 800)

Also switching between field 1 and 2 as they both favour different parts of the frequency spectrum.

Hope this helps, I am sure you will get many different opinions on the subject :D

PS one thing I would recommend is to always run full metal mode, with the iron at just a very low volume level, this allows you to change tactics in contaminated spots.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by mcgold8363 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:02 pm

So with a high recovery speed I’m losing depth but getting better responses from items next to each other? So ideal for trashy areas.

If I am digging loads of trash or iron should I therefore be increasing my recovery speed to differentiate between various targets quicker, and keep my iron bias low? If I don’t want to dig any iron I can set the iron bias to high as anything iron in the ground (even if there is something good next to it) will give me the iron tone?

So therefore, having a iron balance at 3 sounds good for most, of not all areas, as it allows you to “listen” to iron and good tones together, but for the recovery, you need to be running it initially low say 3 to get a decent amount of depth, but if your getting a lot of trash increase the recovery speed (this will lose you depth, but it will enable you to separate good and bad tones easier) - is that correct?

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 16, 2019 1:05 pm

Dave8472 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:50 pm
Be careful with those two settings as even small changes make a lot of difference.

Recovery speed increases make the target signal narrower and will be at the expense of smaller deeper items.

Iron bias is the trade off for an ID being treated as good or iron, the lower it is the more falsing you will get and dig more iron. It works both ways though, too high and in trash sites you may miss stuff.

There isn’t a right setting, but it depends on the site. Ideally small areas with a lot of trash need doing in a few different modes and settings.

On my pasture sites that are quite contaminated I have been using iron bias between 2 and 3. Recovery speed between 5 and 7.

Also switching between field 1 and 2 as they both favour different parts of the frequency spectrum.

Hope this helps, I am sure you will get many different opinions on the subject :D

PS one thing I would recommend is to always run full metal mode, with the iron at just a very low volume level, this allows you to change tactics in contaminated spots.

Dave ):=
I never unwittingly dig iron despite using 0 iron bias, you can easily hear the difference between ferrous and non ferrous once your ear is in so to speak, the same with recovery speed, if you've come to the Nox from a fast responding machine like say a Goldmaxx or F75 you will not have any trouble latching onto faint and deep targets, I personally find upping iron bias and recovery speed makes the machine give vague or mixed signals that bleed into each other.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 16, 2019 1:13 pm

mcgold8363 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:02 pm
So with a high recovery speed I’m losing depth but getting better responses from items next to each other? So ideal for trashy areas.

If I am digging loads of trash or iron should I therefore be increasing my recovery speed to differentiate between various targets quicker, and keep my iron bias low? If I don’t want to dig any iron I can set the iron bias to high as anything iron in the ground (even if there is something good next to it) will give me the iron tone?

So therefore, having a iron balance at 3 sounds good for most, of not all areas, as it allows you to “listen” to iron and good tones together, but for the recovery, you need to be running it initially low say 3 to get a decent amount of depth, but if your getting a lot of trash increase the recovery speed (this will lose you depth, but it will enable you to separate good and bad tones easier) - is that correct?
You lose virtually no depth by upping recovery speed, lowering recovery speed makes the target sound wider, again when I tried this on my test garden, there is no worthwhile gain, the target sounds bigger because the response is wider, you'll still hear the target with higher recovery speeds if you swing the coil at a moderate pace.

As for digging iron, can I ask what your current settings are?

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by mcgold8363 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:52 pm

I use Freds setting at the moment, but I am just trying to gain a full understanding of what they all mean:

Field 1
Frequency (multifrequency)
Sensitivity (21)
All Metal (on)
Ground Balance (manual or automatic)
Volume Adjust (25)
Volume Adjust Advanced (Tone 1: 1)
Threshold Level (to suit)
Threshold Level Advanced (to suit)
Target Tone (50)
Target Tone Advanced (Tone 1:1)
Accept/Reject (reject -9 to 0)
Accept/Reject Advanced (not used)
Recovery Speed (3)
Recovery Speed Advanced (Iron Bias 3)

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Not much I'd disagree with there tbh, but...........Sensitivity to suit the conditions, and forget all metal as you clearly do not want to be hearing that much iron! :D

If you are getting confused listen to the tones you are hearing, for example I recently and deliberately dug up a chunk of cast iron drainpipe that was about 50mm across, the audio was all over the place, numbers wise 8-28 and very abrupt, a dead giveaway, coming off the target you'll get minus numbers and distinctive sounding high tone falseing, for want of a better description you'll hear brief chirps that sound somewhat like a budgie! Good targets have steady numbers and more often than not give repeatable or similar readings when you walk round the target.

Smaller iron also gives varied tones and numbers if you sweep from another direction, and if you are running some discrimination, you'll also hear broken signals and or nulling, again a giveaway you have ferrous under the coil.In this instance the "size" of the signal is the giveaway, ie it's smaller and narrower that the drain pipe mentioned above.

Next time you go out collect a few problem targets rebury them and have a listen out for the signals they give, it does take some time if you are new to any machine but eventually you'll "click! and you'll know iron the instant you hear it.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 16, 2019 3:02 pm

This is the screen on my 600, note some iron notched in, plus I'm plagued with coke on one site so I notch out the first three positive numbers on this specific bit of land (hammy fragments read 4-5) I also run the noisier F2 setting but F1 suits some better.

Sensitivity to suit, usually between 18-22
Manual ground balance, no tracking.
ALL METAL OFF!!
Multi tones
Iron volume 1, 25 on everything else.
No threshold
Iron bias 0
Recover 3 (6 on the 800)

As mentioned earlier I never have problems with iron recognition as smaller stuff is not heard and bigger bits are very distinctive tone wise.
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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by mcgold8363 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:54 pm

Fred according to your settings All Metal is on? as per the message above that does agree can you let me know the reasoning why you prefer it on please?

Also, why do you not suggest running the recovery speed higher at say 8? why 3?

Thanks

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Bors » Thu May 16, 2019 4:13 pm

I dig next to no Iron, never really have since I got the Nox. I use my settings with All metal ON and I have it on so I can hear the Iron when I go over it grunting away.That also lets me know whether to increase or decrease the Sensitivity or to lower or higher the recovery speed.
I say that because it's pointless having I high recovery speed if there`s very little Iron to dodge and by having the recovery speed too high in a clean bit of ground you then can lose some depth.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 16, 2019 4:30 pm

In my experience there is next to no gain in depth with a slow recovery speed, it's rather like some machines that have a boost mode, you get spurious and indistinct signals due to the fact signal processing is slower, which in turn gives the illusion of more depth, what you are hearing is a modulated signal.

And personally I run as much gain as possible in discrim mode, only turning it down if it becomes too sparky, or up if it's too quiet! If I do find iron contamination my first response is to slow the swing a bit before making any adjustments.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Billy Doyle » Thu May 16, 2019 5:19 pm

I'm using IB at either 0 or 1 (usually 0 because I've got used to the machine)

RS is:

4 for normal detecting while I'm sussing out the land
3 if it's quiet and I want to go deep
5 if it's noisy with iron about

Have fun ::g

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Bors » Thu May 16, 2019 5:26 pm

Here`s a good read on the subject .

r;[ http://thesilverfiend.com/minelab-equin ... ery-speed/ l;/

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Dave8472 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:45 pm

Just to clarify as it caught me out on this post, re recovery speed numbers.

Please note they are different for the 600 and 800, thanks to “ten pence” for posting that ::g

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by Koala » Thu May 16, 2019 6:32 pm

there appears to be some confuse over terminology.


place a horseshoe on the ground, place a cut half next to it.


the amount of separation you need before the hammered is heard is purely down to the size of the coil. This is a distance limit

no amount of changing setting is going to help

recovery is machine time limit. In this case is can be adjusted. The machine Doesn't go faster. simplistically It takes a shorter sample. Its a compromise a shorter sample hasn't got as much data to work with so depending on the targets depth orientation and so on, some marginal targets may be missed.


if you build a test garden the iron has to be fairly large and use a normal full sweep otherwise there will be no difference.

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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by fred » Thu May 16, 2019 7:23 pm

The Fred programme was designed to be stable so it helped beginners get used to the Nox. This was necessary because the Nox seemed very strange to some new users, especially those coming from completely different types of detectors. It didn't help that the preset modes aren't really suitable for most UK situations. Once you get used to the buttons, sounds and swing speeds I suggested that you need to experiment to find the optimum setting for you and your sites.

I have certainly moved on and there are a couple of later posts from me detailing some alternative settings that I use, and also plenty of discussions on the subject within other threads. I do think that All Metal helps on my sites but you can experiment and make your own choices.

Best of luck
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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by fred » Thu May 16, 2019 8:19 pm

Koala wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 6:32 pm
there appears to be some confuse over terminology.


place a horseshoe on the ground, place a cut half next to it.


the amount of separation you need before the hammered is heard is purely down to the size of the coil. This is a distance limit

no amount of changing setting is going to help

recovery is machine time limit. In this case is can be adjusted. The machine Doesn't go faster. simplistically It takes a shorter sample. Its a compromise a shorter sample hasn't got as much data to work with so depending on the targets depth orientation and so on, some marginal targets may be missed.


if you build a test garden the iron has to be fairly large and use a normal full sweep otherwise there will be no difference.

Firstly any machine will only have the hardware and technology that the manufacturer has available and thinks will suit the potential customers. This may, or may not, have innovative features but where those features seem to be an improvement most people would welcome them. Smaller, lighter and waterproof spring readily to mind but improved processing is also in the mix too.

I thought that provided that a positive target is not completely obscured by an iron signal, the rapid sampling of modern machines picks up both good and bad responses. The electronic filters clean up these responses, assigns values to them and tells you about them through sounds and numbers so you can decide whether to dig or not. A detector may handle some situations better than others e.g. the Nox will occasionally see three small bits of iron close together as a possibly positive signal but experience will help you deal with that.

Altering the Recovery Speed simply changes the filtering arrangements to provide narrower signals which may help you to differentiate signals better.

None of this changes the basic rules of physics but what good software does do is to give you a better interface with your detector. In my opinion the Nox has good software. :D
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Re: Equinox Recovery Speed chats

Post by mcgold8363 » Thu May 16, 2019 8:23 pm

fred wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:23 pm
The Fred programme was designed to be stable so it helped beginners get used to the Nox. This was necessary because the Nox seemed very strange to some new users, especially those coming from completely different types of detectors. It didn't help that the preset modes aren't really suitable for most UK situations. Once you get used to the buttons, sounds and swing speeds I suggested that you need to experiment to find the optimum setting for you and your sites.

I have certainly moved on and there are a couple of later posts from me detailing some alternative settings that I use, and also plenty of discussions on the subject within other threads. I do think that All Metal helps on my sites but you can experiment and make your own choices.

Best of luck
Loving your work Fred, and thanks to everyone else. I will use your field setting when I am out this weekend on an area that is described as a grazed pasture that has never been detected before.

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