Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

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Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Saffron » Thu May 23, 2019 2:12 am

Sorry folks this is a long ramble but I think the background helps explain the situation.

I play fairly safe with any new detector that I get, as I know that the default settings will be a good compromise. Yes I know with the correct "tweaks" you can improve performance, BUT if you get these wrong it is VERY easy to REDUCE the performance of the machine.

When I first got the Nox Bargeman very kindly adjusted the Iron Bias and Response Speed for me (its a bad idea to get a new machine on a Thursday and go for a Weekender on the Friday - but circumstances forced my hand!).

On my main permision these worked well, as it has been heavily detected and finds are few and far between so any extra depth is important although small bits of iron (mainly nails from horseshoes!) can be a pain.

Recently I have mainly been using Fred's, (aka Nox Guru), settings of Iron Bias 1 and Response Speed 3 which are only slightly different from what BM set up. On Sunday I was on a dig and almost gave up on a signal as due to the depth I felt it had to be something deep big and ugly, but decided to give it "just one more spadeful" and was rewarded by a lovely Russian 1836 flax bag seal (I like bag seals as you can tell so much from them). This convinced me that my settings were "on the money".

But in part due to the "How not to dig iron" thread as I had a short session this evening I thought I would use my default settings and then "Have a play" with the iffy signals to see if I could make them better.

In about 1/2 hours detecting I managed 4 very iffy "do I don't signals" with the above settings. Rule number one of any testing is NEVER change two variables, so I decided to just change the Recovery Speed which from odd changes before I felt was the important one ON MY GROUND.
The manual, which you should have read and reread!, and posts on here all say that the Recovery Speed effects the depth, and that while a higher recovery speed will help find targets in trashy areas it looses depth, while a lower recovery speed increases depth but increases the chances of iron masking a target.

What I was hoping to establish with these signals was if I had one or two targets, so thought the higher recovery speed might help. OK I have read, and reread several times, the manual and seen the posts on here but it still surprised me the difference it made, even if not quite as expected.

As I said my default recovery speed is 3, by changing this to one it made no difference (maybe the one target became slightly better). But by going the opposite way, (as advised by some "experts"), admittedly to a rather extreme 8 what a massive difference it made. But NOT in a good way. Out of these 4 signals, 2 were completely lost and it failed to detect the target!.

I dug all 4 and they were all at a good depth for the size of the target, a buckle (1" square, agricultural?), a seed drill spoon and a bag seal .... which got a "Yes!" as I like bag seals ... followed by a groan as I found it was blank, and a small rusty piece of iron (which I suspected was iron but just tempted me). For such a well detected bit of ground that is a good return for 1/2 an hour. BUT if I had run a fast recovery speed I would have missed the bag seal and buckle.

That slower recovery speed works well on my ground, and I might in future reduce it further, as it gives the extra depth. But I know it would not work on sites with a lot of trash so it just shows that AFTER learning the basics of the machine you need to adjust the settings to your ground conditions to get the best out of the detector.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Easylife » Thu May 23, 2019 4:04 am

Hi Evan, no apologies required for the ramble as it's just the conclusion of your experimentation so far but a great subject raised for us other Nox users and great to share experiences.
In comparison I always run Sensitivity 25 with Iron bias 0 on my pasture permissions but do not dig any iron nails of any size but maybe because I always use the 15” coil? But I don't remember digging any with the standard coil either? So can only assume that your disc is maybe set too low or you're digging the sparks? The only time that I find small iron nails is with my pinpointer when they are in the same hole as the non-ferrous target originally detected. So whether that's an advantage of the larger coil I don't know? But it still finds really small bits at decent depth and ID's larger targets at very good depth.
Personal experimentation with settings are the best way to understand the effects of such changes. Though from my own experience on pasture any advantage really is quite insignificant if going below Reactivity 4. Though I have not really experimented too much with higher Reactivity amongst iron as I don't feel that it's too much of an issue on my land. But on one occasion on a completely iron infested patch that I had gridded several times with another top detector I did set Reactivity to max 8 just for the shear hell of it and could hardly believe that it so cleanly picked out a good target at about 7 or 8 inches right within a seemingly complete blanket of iron.
My air tests showed that there is about 1” depth difference between Reactivity 4 & 5 with the standard coil, and about 2” difference with the 15” coil, so it's likely all relative to some degree in the ground. But with Recovery 4 and Sense 25 there was a 3” depth gain over the standard Recovery 20 setting, so? I do feel that any further reduction in Reactivity would only really be slightly more beneficial in completely iron free ground.
On a new site with a lot of trash I would probably settle on a Recovery speed of about 5, though when all the shallower finds were cleared I would then go over it again slower in Reactivity 4 to hoover up all the rest that were missed. Just my own personal opinions from experience though! Reactivity 4 is a great balance of depth and separation, 5 gives better separation but less depth but would not likely be noticeable to most if generally searching on unfamiliar land. 6 and up, well I'd rather not go there unless extremely challenged with iron. I'm mainly on old pasture so need all the help I can get to winkle out the deeper finds. As said Recovery 4 seems most optimal overall, but that is just my own conclusion and would be most interested to hear of other's tried and tested opinions. ::g
So glad that you didn't ask about using the Gold program or even tones. =))
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 7:48 am

I set up similarly to Easylife although I prefer Iron Bias set at 1. I can't say that I have noticed any great reduction in depth when fiddling with the Response Speed though. The targets do become much smaller and sharper and you have to swing excruciatingly slowly and listen very carefully to hear the smaller, deeper ones.

The thing about the Nox being such a decent machine is that even if you are running the settings quite coarsely it is probably going to find stuff anyway. A real bonus for me is that even after 18 months it's still great fun playing with the settings and trying to work out what the hell is happening. :D
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 8:23 am

While I genuinely like reading others experiences upon settings and do my best to take them all on board I`m starting to think I`m not going to get hung up on mimicking any of them. Not because I don`t like, trust, or have any faith in them, I`m just going to do what I always have done and use my own after reading and listening over the past few months as whats the best combination on the IB and the recovery speed.
If I tweak and like, I`ll use, but if I tweak and feel I`m not getting what I think I should be getting, I`ll alter to my discretion.
I think its too easy to get caught up in a myriad of possibilities of certain settings which ,with no disrespect to anyone as were all relatively new to the Nox, NO ONE as yet I can see, knows 100% whats THE ultimate settings on the NOX because of the complexity of the Iron Bias in conjunction with the Recovery speed .
Just when you think you have heard the BEST conjunction between the two, someone comes along and says "no that's not working for me so I`m doing this " and it goes against what the recommended settings tell us, or others we feel are in the know better than us tell us.
Yes, we have the User manual guidance, Yes, we have the personality guidances, yes, we have the Youtube guidance. But ALL differ with their suggestions as to whats the best, and I use the word best lightly.
So my conclusion is to keep sorting it out myself and sift through all the suggestions, advice, and read - ups until my own experience decides whats the best course of action where and when its required to alter the two settings,and what to alter them to, as up to now there`s so much indecisiveness about what IS the right settings on IB and recovery speed, its all getting a bit its too much to take on board because of different opinions as to be recommended to be chiseled in stone.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 10:17 am

On a recent post on another Forum, a good friend of mine wrote this, and I thought it was worth a mention being as I think it's relevant to this conversation.

" I am interested to hear what other Nox users are setting their Iron Bias at and do you change it.

I watched a video of Gordon Heritage using his 4x4 program (4 recovery and 4 iron bias) in this he says on cleaner sites he can use 3x3 but on this particular site there was too much iron so it needed to be 4x4.

The Instruction Manual in its' description of Iron Bias says:

'A lower Iron Bias setting will allow the natural response to dominate which means that the target is more likely to be classified as a non-ferrous target. A higher setting will increase the likelihood that the target is classified as iron.'

'In environments with dense iron trash, a higher Iron Bias is recommended in order to mask them. In areas where you do not want to miss any non-ferrous targets amongst iron trash, a lower setting is recommended. This will cause more ferrous targets to be detected and identified as desirable non-ferrous targets.'

I ask the question because on the weekend my detecting pal had iron bias at 6 and recovery at 4. He hit a target which gave a solid 11 from all angles. My iron bias was at 0 with recovery at 4 and when I swept the target I had a good 11 but it was interrupted with a '-' number (cant remember the number) but it was definitely minus, not in all sweep directions but in most. The target turned out to be a small silver buckle with a heavily corroded iron pin. So at 0 iron bias I was picking up both the iron and silver as I would expect. Jims' iron bias at 6 didn't indicate any iron at all because it was masking it.

The reason I have highlighted this is because I do know some users if they get a repeatable minus number in their sweeps will not dig it.
I suppose if Gordon Heritage's advice of switching to 10kHz was taken, this would confirm it to be a good target,but I didn't do this as I felt it was good anyway.

I think sometimes we can get obsessed with depth. Myself I prefer " quality Iron separation " over depth .

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 11:04 am

My difficulty with the 'official' explanation of Iron Bias is that, while it is true, it is not actually of much practical help in deciding how to use it.

A while ago somebody on here identified that the key to discriminating with the Nox is being able to tell the difference between "an iron target with a hint of good and a good target with a hint of iron".

Many people use Iron Bias at the earlier stages of learning the Nox because they don't have the experience to interpret what they are hearing and seeing. As you build up experience the Iron Bias becomes much less necessary.

How you set up your machine also depends upon your sites and your personal preferences. Some people seem to have an almost pathalogical hatred of digging any junk or demand certainty about their signals while others regard digging some rubbish as an unavoidable part of detecting. Likewise the importance of depth may well be overstated but to those of us with sites where almost everything left is very deep it can be the holy grail of detecting.

The whole point about the Nox is that it will cater for all schools of thought and everything inbetween but it requires a bit of experimentation and may involve some compromises. The upshot is that we can recount our experiences and make suggestions but there are no magic answers, you need to put in the hours for yourself. :D
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bradrick » Thu May 23, 2019 11:53 am

Bors wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:17 am


I think sometimes we can get obsessed with depth. Myself I prefer " quality Iron separation " over depth .
I think that is my preference too Bors. I am restricted to testing different combinations in my garden at the moment (due to health issues), but two of my 'primary' permissions are ancient pasture. Finds are deep, but they are also smothered with centuries of iron wastage and numerous electrical interferences (the nox deals very well with the latter). I dug a dagger pommel (albeit with a different machine) that was surrounded by chunks of iron from an old fence and a Roman brooch corroded by iron, which tells me that iron separation is more important to me than depth on these sites at the moment. I will deal with depth at a later stage.

Conflicting findings are inevitable and will vary greatly based upon land, conditions and the experience of the user, but these threads are ultimately invaluable. let's face it: we are all drawn to great finds and stories, but also drawn towards those made with the machine 'we' use.

I don't 'knock' the magazine reviews and they are useful for people deciding which machine to buy and offer basic setups for UK use, but they do need to carry a health warning. Walking over an object and getting a signal is not rocket science. Fine-tuning to suit conditions will determine consistency, so listening to anyone's experience and testing is extremely useful. I have used a number of detectors, but chats with Fred expedited overcoming initial 'issues' with the nox.

Thanks for the post Evan.
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 3:28 pm

I would like to show you a find I had about two weeks ago. This was found at approx 8" deep. it was giving me positive figures (not going to even try and remember what the figures were) but also it was flicking onto Negative figures also. The ground was Clean -ish with spasmodic pockets here and there of Iron. So, my recovery speed was 4. IB was 2.
Now those two settings be they right or wrong to anyone else, enabled me to "know" I had a diggable target below me hence the evidence in the two photos included. I haven't put any measurements by the photo`s as I`m not trying to ID it.
As you can see from the photo`s there`s a large Crud of Iron hugging the Copper Alloy piece of metal. Probably 50% of the target. So I`m confident that when I`m searching I`m doing something right to detect such a find regardless of it being semi-wrapped with Iron.
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Ten pence! » Thu May 23, 2019 5:32 pm

I had one of the first ML Explorers, deep but slooooow! I ended up hating it and eventually chopped in in for a T2 which was sparky and fast responding, I never looked back after that.

I'll stick my neck out here and say owners of more recent Minelabs don't quite appreciate what ML have done with the Nox! It isn't really a traditional ML but has more in common with "fast" machines like those produced by Fisher/Teknetics, XP and Macro, if you have any of those detectors and you set the Nox up like my old Explorer you've probably just wasted several hundred quid! It will in my experience work better if you forget it's a Minelab and accept it's something built to take on the popular machines made by the previously mentioned manufacturers, if you could handle a twitchy XP or Fisher you'll get on well with the Nox because you can take advantage of the the good target separation and and unmasking on offer.

We have one particular site that is very productive, but it is a bit tricky. In 2006 and 2007 it had no less than six club digs on it, apparently little was found and they gave up the site, I was shown photos of the various digs, most had older Minelabs with a smattering of C-Scopes and Tesoro's/Lasers. We started detecting here in 2016 and it's a busy site, lots of modern iron and coke and especially lots of ancient finds including iron age gold and silver coins, plus numerous hammered coins and artifacts, I can only assume with all the iron they missed a lot of stuff, I've used a Racer 2, Goldmaxx and Nox on here and had a ton of stuff as has my F75 armed detecting partner, you'd struggle on here if you tuned the machine to be quite and knock out most of the junk.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 6:27 pm

Quote ten pence,..." if you could handle a twitchy XP or Fisher you'll get on well with the Nox because you can take advantage of the good target separation and unmasking on offer.".

That makes perfect reasoning, and probably why I have just taken to the NOX like a Duck to water, which I had my reservations about initially, before using the Nox.
Fred will tell you I was like someone at the start of a bungee jump hesitating & hesitating whether to take the plunge or not, and that was because of my hatred for previous past Minelabs.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Tom91 » Thu May 23, 2019 6:54 pm

This is a very useful thread and a good OP.
I'm being lent a 600 to play with and learn next week so am trying to get an idea of what to expect.
The recovery settings sound very similar to the Deus, where there is the same clear drop in depth with each tweak.
From what's suggested on here it sounds like I want to run it as slow and open as possible and then reduce as necessary depending on the site.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 6:55 pm

Bors wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:27 pm
Quote ten pence,..." if you could handle a twitchy XP or Fisher you'll get on well with the Nox because you can take advantage of the good target separation and unmasking on offer.".

That makes perfect reasoning, and probably why I have just taken to the NOX like a Duck to water, which I had my reservations about initially, before using the Nox.
Fred will tell you I was like someone at the start of a bungee jump hesitating & hesitating whether to take the plunge or not, and that was because of my hatred for previous past Minelabs.

I can assure you that the Nox does have many similarities with both the Explorer family detectors and the CTX. After a brief period of confusion because of the software it was quite recognisably a Minelab and I found it a doddle to learn.

What Minelab seems to have done is to listen to the whinges about the CTX. It has designed a lighter, cheaper machine around multifrequency technology and added some new features and a new interface.

The fact that users of some other brands find it easy to change is great but that certainly isn't true for everybody. :D
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by littleboot » Thu May 23, 2019 6:58 pm

I am firmly in the Ten Pence camp on this. As a GMP owner the concept of recovery speed killing depth is in my knowledge box already.
Its like this...if its very trashy you may as well boost recovery speed because its unlikely that you will be able to find much depth anyway. So you won't lose and could gain from better separation.
If its a bit trashy but not excessive then lower recovery speed and go slower. (Very slow if necessary.)
If it is quiet then dispense with it as much as you possibly can and go for depth.
Its a numbers game in more ways than one. On a permission its about maximizing the probability of getting the signals you want....working out which to trade, depth or masking or a fudge in the middle.
The Equinox is super simple. I love it. I have fields where I have heavy infestation with coke and iron etc and a then areas with next to no activity. I switch up or down my recovery speed as I walk along and adjust my swing speed at the same time. Lovely simple set-up.
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 7:07 pm

Tom91 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:54 pm
This is a very useful thread and a good OP.
I'm being lent a 600 to play with and learn next week so am trying to get an idea of what to expect.
The recovery settings sound very similar to the Deus, where there is the same clear drop in depth with each tweak.
From what's suggested on here it sounds like I want to run it as slow and open as possible and then reduce as necessary depending on the site.
I really wouldn't try and get too clever with it too soon.

Choose a preset Mode, noise control and then play for a few trips to try and understand the sounds and get the swing speed right. It can be frustrating but for most people going straight into advanced settings really isn't likely to help matters.

Ideally get somebody to run you through the basics though, that really can save you a considerable amount of grief.

Best of luck :D
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 7:09 pm

littleboot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:58 pm
I am firmly in the Ten Pence camp on this. As a GMP owner the concept of recovery speed killing depth is in my knowledge box already.
Its like this...if its very trashy you may as well boost recovery speed because its unlikely that you will be able to find much depth anyway. So you won't lose and could gain from better separation.
If its a bit trashy but not excessive then lower recovery speed and go slower. (Very slow if necessary.)
If it is quiet then dispense with it as much as you possibly can and go for depth.
Its a numbers game in more ways than one. On a permission its about maximizing the probability of getting the signals you want....working out which to trade, depth or masking or a fudge in the middle.
The Equinox is super simple. I love it. I have fields where I have heavy infestation with coke and iron etc and a then areas with next to no activity. I switch up or down my recovery speed as I walk along and adjust my swing speed at the same time. Lovely simple set-up.

I am really glad that you have adapted to the Nox so well. You have no idea how many people struggle badly with the concept of having to swing slowly or vary their swing. ::g
Last edited by fred on Thu May 23, 2019 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 7:10 pm

My MAIN reason why I disliked the Explorer 2 and the Etrac was the Sounds.
Being Old School I grew up understanding that High tone meant good and low tone was Iron until Minelab decided to change that to Low tone Good and High tone bad, which did my skull in. Minelab uses on them Multi-tones and that's probably why I don`t use 50 tones as it sounds like some one once hilariously described as, " A Dolphin on crack ", ......I just hate that sound. I much prefer two tones and the main thing is, It works fine for me in Two tones.
OK, I understand that that could be altered, but by altering it (which for the life of me I cannot remember what ) it meant something else changed, and I didn`t care for that either. The Etrac was the same so that plus the weight issue killed any liking for me for those two particular detectors, and let's face it if you don`t like anything major on a Detector, you're just not going to get on with it due to the major dislikes.
The Nox to me is a different kettle of fish. OK, it might have similarities but the Two main things I didn`t like on previous Minelabs has now gone, heavy weight and 50-tones . So! I`m happy. :D
Last edited by Bors on Thu May 23, 2019 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 7:23 pm

Bors wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:10 pm
My MAIN reason why I disliked the Explorer 2 and the Etrac was the Sounds.
Being Old School I grew up understanding that High tone meant good and low tone was Iron until Minelab decided to change that to Low tone Good and High tone bad, which did my skull in. Minelab uses on them Multi-tones and that's probably why I don`t use 50 tones, I just hate that sound. I much prefer two tones and the main thing is, It works fine for me in Two tones.
OK, I understand that that could be altered, but by altering it (which for the life of me I cannot remember what ) it meant something else changed, and I didn`t care for that either. The Etrac was the same so that plus the weight issue killed any liking for me for those two particular detectors, and let's face it if you don`t like anything major on a Detector, you're just not going to get on with it due to the major dislikes.
The Nox to me is a different kettle of fish. OK, it might have similarities but the Two main things I didn`t like on previous Minelabs has now gone, heavy weight and multi-tones. So! I`m happy. :D

The low tones good thing was just a programme put about by 'experts'. My Minelab machines (Explorer 2s and CTXs) always came with high tones for good and low tones for iron and that is how I preferred them and left them. I'm not sure about the etrac as I never had one.

The weight wasn't really a problem for me so much as balance. Bearable with the stock coils but sometimes murder with the larger ones.

As we have often discussed before the Nox will hit signals that other detectors simply can't and will ID them as viable targets. What it doesn't do so well is give you information about what the target might be. Multitones are not needed if you dig everything positive (reccomended) but quite useful if you sometimes don't. :D
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 7:35 pm

Fred,..." What it doesn't do so well is give you information about what the target might be. That's where Multitones comes into its own. Not needed if you dig everything positive (reccomended) but quite useful if you sometimes don't. "
Well,my "style" of detecting Fred doesn't involve trying to guess or wondering what it is before I dig it. My clinical style is..... Detect, mentally analyze the target as to whether its a dig or no dig, and if its dig, do precisely that or leave it. Trying to second guess what it might be ,doen`t even come into it .

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 7:46 pm

Bors wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:35 pm
Quote Fred,..." What it doesn't do so well is give you information about what the target might be. That's where Multitones comes into its own. Not needed if you dig everything positive (reccomended) but quite useful if you sometimes don't. "

Well,my "style" of detecting Fred doesn't involve trying to guess or wondering what it is before I dig it. My clinical style is..... Detect, mentally analyze the target as to whether its a dig or no dig, and if its dig, do precisely that or leave it. Trying to second guess what it might be ,doen`t even come into it .

Exactly! ::g

I sometimes coinshoot on the beach in and the absolutely precise target ID of previous Minelabs was very useful, as was multitones. 1238 on a CTX was almost always a pound coin and all other coins had their unique signature numbers, gold and silver fell within recognisable ranges and all had signature sounds. All the iron, the scraps of aluminium and even fishing weights could fairly safely be dug or ignored as the fancy took me. Not quite so easy with the Nox although I'm getting better (and it finds small gold much better too).

Horses for courses as they say! :D
Last edited by fred on Thu May 23, 2019 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 7:49 pm

I suppose the nearest thing to that on the Nox would be to use Notch ,and Accept pound or two pound coins only ,and notch everything else out. :-/

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Thu May 23, 2019 7:56 pm

Bors wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 7:49 pm
I suppose the nearest thing to that on the Nox would be to use Notch ,and Accept pound or two pound coins only ,and notch everything else out. :-/

It wouldn't work. Modern pound coins bounce 22/23 and notching in even one number gets you a huge range of junk because it is so imprecise. :)

My guess is that the next Nox will have more precise numerical ID system. It probably wouldn't be that difficult because Minelab have done it before. Mind you the new one will probably cost the earth despite just being a few more software tweaks. :D
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Thu May 23, 2019 7:57 pm

Shows I havn`t tried it anyway =))

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Lowland » Thu May 23, 2019 10:02 pm

littleboot wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:58 pm
I am firmly in the Ten Pence camp on this. As a GMP owner the concept of recovery speed killing depth is in my knowledge box already.
Its like this...if its very trashy you may as well boost recovery speed because its unlikely that you will be able to find much depth anyway. So you won't lose and could gain from better separation.
If its a bit trashy but not excessive then lower recovery speed and go slower. (Very slow if necessary.)
If it is quiet then dispense with it as much as you possibly can and go for depth.
Its a numbers game in more ways than one. On a permission its about maximizing the probability of getting the signals you want....working out which to trade, depth or masking or a fudge in the middle.
The Equinox is super simple. I love it. I have fields where I have heavy infestation with coke and iron etc and a then areas with next to no activity. I switch up or down my recovery speed as I walk along and adjust my swing speed at the same time. Lovely simple set-up.
I’m on your bus LB ::g
Great thread everyone,been interesting and useful to me and I’m sure lots of others.
The 600 is giving me so much good information on what’s under it,
I’m digging everything just to see that it is what I think it is,
I spose in a way already knowing the terrain and ground conditions on this one field
(242 hours give or take :D )
I have a fair idea of what junk is going to turn up-mostly spent .22 pesky tiny rim fire shells.
Ive now guessed two live ones correctly x;
Superb machine-for a good job,it had a tough act to follow!
Shiny equinox600- taped up spade-dodgy elbow
.....................deeper bliss......................

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Saffron » Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 pm

Boy, I expected my original post to get some response but not this amount (over 20 replies so far).

A big "thank you" to everybody that has contributed to the thread with such considered thoughts, as you might expect there are some slightly conflicting views, but by and large a general concensus about the usage of recovery speeds and iron bias depending on your own sites.

I fully agree that depth is not every thing, (and have said so in the past), but in my case this site is my original permission (it is also the last one where I can risk detecting on when the ground is drier) so it has been very heavily detected so every extra inch helps in an effort to get a few extra finds out of it.

I do dig the odd bit of rusty iron, and normally suspect it is so beforehand, but am willing to do this to avoid the risk of missing a good target. However, I accept that by changing other setting (mainly iron bias) I could avoid this.

Evan

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by fred » Fri May 24, 2019 6:23 am

Lowland wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 10:02 pm

I have a fair idea of what junk is going to turn up-mostly spent .22 pesky tiny rim fire shells.
Ive now guessed two live ones correctly x;
Superb machine-for a good job,it had a tough act to follow!

Oddly enough .22 heads and cases, along with airgun pellets, have become the bane of my life since getting the Nox. I used to find the .22 heads and cases with the CTX but the ID numbers were so recognisable that they could be ignored. I also used to occasionally dig airgun pellets too but now I find that the entire country (including for some inexplicable reason beaches) seem to be littered with the damn things.

Other than obvious iron they are probably the only category of signal which I have been known to occasionally be selective about. That is possible because the signals are fairly easily recognisable by a combination of number, tone, size, depth and experience. Helpfully on my sites not much else worth having tends to fall in their range but completely ignoring them on number alone would not be entirely risk free. I picked a hammered farthing out of a concentration of .22 heads with the same 10 signal because the tone sounded just a little different.

I have to dig lots of .177 airgun pellets on beaches though, simply because although the number is consistently 4 they sound very similar to small gold. In fact on beaches gold seems to come in anywhere from 0 to about 22 and I suspect that it may even give negative signals occasionally. This makes ignoring almost anything small and positive on beaches a tad risky. :D
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Fri May 24, 2019 8:02 am

MAYBE we`re being OVER SELECTIVE in our aspirations of a metal detector.
I say that because as most of us know a metal detector works on the method of whether the Target is Ferrous or nonferrous in so far as what it sees as choosing to call a GOOD target or a BAD target.
Air rifle pellets are made of lead (or used to be ) so the detector sees it as a good target. Small rimfire cases are made of Brass, hence again the metal detector also sees that as a good target. I think " expecting " even today's advanced detectors to reject those type of targets even while rejecting also is pushing the bounds of expectancy too far. We have to expect that a detector can only give so much info for the decision as to whether to dig it or not because if nothing else are we taking the original fun out of metal detecting by expecting a detector to give 100% information. So thinking about it, How easy do we want to make it before it becomes like shooting rats in a barrel?
Isn`t half the fun of metal detecting the pitting of our wits and knowledge against this piece of metal & plastic? What do we require as the next step, the ultimate info ....a Color screen of what the coil sees below us, then that would destroy the "hunt" forever and metal detecting would no longer be about the "hunting " but simply just about the " digging."I`m sure I wouldn`t like that advancement even if it ever was a possibility. Where would the challenge have gone?

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by littleboot » Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 am

Very much my view Bors. ::g

On the subject of .22s....when I had the GMP (which I firmly believe was a machine Minelab used as a springboard in development of the Nox) they gave mixed medium to high warbles. No grunt though so I always dug them. One day I had a already dug two nearby and then got another signal which was similar. I think the fact that it was ever-so-slightly different probably made me dig it anyway (That and the fact I was sheltering under a bush at the time and had nothing else to do. :D )
It was a stater and it was electrum. The mix of silver in the gold is what gave it the higher bit of tone.
So I tried the Nox on the stater and a .22 and the results were very similar. Admittedly it was only an air test) So I still have to dig em. Boo, I said. (Or words to that effect)
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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Bors » Fri May 24, 2019 11:30 am

littleboot wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 am
Very much my view Bors. ::g

On the subject of .22s....when I had the GMP (which I firmly believe was a machine Minelab used as a springboard in development of the Nox) they gave mixed medium to high warbles. No grunt though so I always dug them. One day I had a already dug two nearby and then got another signal which was similar. I think the fact that it was ever-so-slightly different probably made me dig it anyway (That and the fact I was sheltering under a bush at the time and had nothing else to do. :D )
It was a stater and it was electrum. The mix of silver in the gold is what gave it the higher bit of tone.
So I tried the Nox on the stater and a .22 and the results were very similar. Admittedly it was only an air test) So I still have to dig em. Boo, I said. (Or words to that effect)
And here lies the problem of the same band "bleed ". What can almost fall into the same register band on the digital scale can differ sometimes by just one digit, but that one digit can make a huge difference. So do we simply say, on a hypothetical example,
...." I`m not digging a 16 target value, as I know its an airgun pellet", and then when you get a 17 digital readout do you say again, " Awe it's going to be an Airgun pellet again because its only 1 digit difference so I`m not digging that either."
The point is, can you afford to dismiss it?
And that's when you pit your wits against the machine.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by Saffron » Fri May 24, 2019 3:02 pm

Going by numbers is always dangerous.
With the Racer 2 I found ring pulls were frequently 38, so sometimes would ignore targets with this TID.
I was then asked to find a gold ring a lady had lost, not having found a gold ring and not wanting to dig all her garden up I asked on here what readin I should look out for. Mrix kindly checked for me ...38.

After that I dug a lot more ring pulls.

Regarding Bors post about what is a "good" or "bad" target I always use 3 classes of target
1. "Bad" .... items that should never be dug, eg iron
2. "Good but bad" .... items that should be dug but are junk, eg lead blobs (NO detector can tell the difference between a 1" lead blob and a really nice 1" lead token or bag seal).
3. "Good" .... the small percentage that are genuine good finds.

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Re: Recovery speed ... How to KILL depth !

Post by littleboot » Fri May 24, 2019 3:18 pm

Bors wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 11:30 am
littleboot wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 9:27 am
Very much my view Bors. ::g

On the subject of .22s....when I had the GMP (which I firmly believe was a machine Minelab used as a springboard in development of the Nox) they gave mixed medium to high warbles. No grunt though so I always dug them. One day I had a already dug two nearby and then got another signal which was similar. I think the fact that it was ever-so-slightly different probably made me dig it anyway (That and the fact I was sheltering under a bush at the time and had nothing else to do. :D )
It was a stater and it was electrum. The mix of silver in the gold is what gave it the higher bit of tone.
So I tried the Nox on the stater and a .22 and the results were very similar. Admittedly it was only an air test) So I still have to dig em. Boo, I said. (Or words to that effect)
And here lies the problem of the same band "bleed ". What can almost fall into the same register band on the digital scale can differ sometimes by just one digit, but that one digit can make a huge difference. So do we simply say, on a hypothetical example,
...." I`m not digging a 16 target value, as I know its an airgun pellet", and then when you get a 17 digital readout do you say again, " Awe it's going to be an Airgun pellet again because its only 1 digit difference so I`m not digging that either."
The point is, can you afford to dismiss it?
And that's when you pit your wits against the machine.
But Bors....I have told you before....ignore the numbers, they are not as accurate as the sounds. :)) On the GMP I had No numbers anyway. As I said it was the 'slight' difference in the sounds. Now would they have com in on the same or slightly different numbers if I had had them available...I can't say. With the Nox the numbers are a rough guide only. What I was testing for was the sound. Its pitch, its shape and character. But I agree....it is fun to pit your wits and I for one wouldn't enjoy the hobby if I had a machine that did all that for me. Boring. Where would the surprise be in digging your hole and discovering what you had in the spoil? None whatsoever.
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