vanishing signal help

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mitch
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vanishing signal help

Post by mitch » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:42 am

Hi all, so went out on a beach for an hour this evening with my Nox 600. Been on a couple of beaches before with usual results of ring pulls, foils, and modern coinage. However tonight, I kept getting signals in various places with varying TIDS around 10 inches depth on average. Every time I dug the hole to a little deeper than the target, the signal disappeared, so went over the spoil pile, nothing, flattened the pile out, nothing, filled the hole back in, nothing.
This went on for quite a few digs and became not only frustrating but embarrassing. I know the machine was working fine as I had coins and trash etc also tonight. The setting was on standard beach 1 with no adjustments.
Is this normal? and if so what is causing it and why does it occur?
Many thanks in advance.


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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by Bors » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:12 am

It seems like what your experiencing is probably what you hear people describe as "Ghost signals". The usual reason for this is usually caused by heavy mineralisation of mineral Salts causing a reaction to the coils sent signal, this especially happens in wet sand , causing the "described " ghost signals (false signals). You might find lowering the Sensitivity down and sweeping much slower, a big help .
Last edited by Bors on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by mitch » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:18 am

thanks for that, even with the nox in the beach setting which is suppose to be for exactly that type of area?
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by Bors » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:28 am

I wouldn`t rely soley on a "mode" setting. Nothings written in stone. You have to Tweak a bit some times to get results that compliment the "exact" surroundings your doing. Some sand will be more mineralised ,or less mineralised, than others. Black sand is a notorious highly mineralised sand that tests most machines even with the so-called "beach settings".
Its just a case of Tweaking till you get the desired stability. Some times you`ll struggle, other times you`ll get your detector to get it right easily. Its all a matter of adjustment as and when required.

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by mitch » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:32 am

thanks again, its always good to learn something new, it was a strip of black sand on brown. I will give this a go next time, much appreciated.
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by Bors » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:41 am

If you get a repeat of this next time . If you can jot your settings down you started with, come back on the forum and your settings can be discussed on what might be best altered and what possible other tweakings you could try to get a more stable search method going.
Fred on here does a lot of Beach work and I`m confident he could advise you with his beach settings on a comparison to yours. ::g

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by Krusty » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:01 pm

I was trying to detect on a beach in the Black Isle.kept on getting signals and digging and nothing there.mentionrd this to a local walking along beach who informed me that during the war the beach was used as practice for d day landing craft and it could be small flakes of aluminium that were scraped off the bottom of the boats.

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by fred » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:15 pm

The phenomenon of slight signals which go after the first spadeful and reappear after a bit more digging has been commented upon before. It
Is an act of faith but just keep digging.

Also it’s a good positive sound then you might have moved it so just keep digging. The Nox will find old pennies at 16 inches without too much effort and bigger stuff much deeper.

I’ve not experienced ghosting myself but the Nox will make noises if it isn’t ground balance properly. Also if you have igneous rocks on the beach find a big one and ground balance over it as they can also be picked up. :D
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by mitch » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:38 pm

Thanks Fred, I always noise cancel and ground balance as a matter of habit before each dig, however i have only just got into beaches and found yesterday that the beach was all kinds of sand, dry, wet, brown, black, shingle, and ground balancing at the beginning on one type of sand probably threw it off when i walked onto another. I suppose i should of put it on the auto ground balance really, but still confused on how a target can just dissapear when i have ended up digging a hole i can almost fit myself down, and nothing. I admit i am still learning the nox so maybe its just a simple matter of experience. Many thanks to all who have given input.
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by djm666 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:18 pm

As no one else has said it yet... did you have anything metal on your shoes? :-)

I use auto ground balance and had no problems with my nox on the beach. A friend had problems and was not using the auto ground balance I believe, so it might be something worth trying.

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by fred » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:28 am

djm666 wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:18 pm
As no one else has said it yet... did you have anything metal on your shoes? :-)

I use auto ground balance and had no problems with my nox on the beach. A friend had problems and was not using the auto ground balance I believe, so it might be something worth trying.

Be careful with using the auto ground balance. In my opinion although it stabilises the machine it has an adverse affect on sensitivity and depth. Might be worth trying for a while to see if your ghosting signals disappear though. If they do at least you know what the problems is. :D
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by 16.5dd » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:10 am

Pinpoint all the signals before digging and tgat would remove ghost signals.

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by Bors » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:56 am

16.5dd wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:10 am
Pinpoint all the signals before digging and tgat would remove ghost signals.
That`s a new one on me and unless I`m having a brain freeze , :)) How do you Pinpoint a signal that doesn`t exist? :-/

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by 16.5dd » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:11 pm

Well as they posted they had a signal that means they could firstly pinpoint!
Perhaps you misunderstood their problem.
They lose it after digging. Often as the signal is not where they first dug. Sand sinks fast and you can easily lose a target from the wrong spot.
The target sinks beyond the machines capabilities.
Therefore missing the find.
If you find a target and hit the pinpoint area then extract it’s unlikely to disappear.
38 years of metal detecting have helped me understand.

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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by mitch » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:23 pm

i think he meant pinpointing with the detector before digging, not with a ‘pinpointer’ in the hole. But yes i always pinpoint before i dig, i think its a matter of learning the machine more than anything. going out to beach again soon so will take on board all comments. many thanks.
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by Easylife » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:56 am

fred wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:15 pm
The phenomenon of slight signals which go after the first spadeful and reappear after a bit more digging has been commented upon before. It is an act of faith but just keep digging.

Also it’s a good positive sound then you might have moved it so just keep digging. The Nox will find old pennies at 16 inches without too much effort and bigger stuff much deeper.

I’ve not experienced ghosting myself but the Nox will make noises if it isn’t ground balanced properly.
Exactly, So the target is detected down to about 10 inches and then disappears, so it will be just a few inches deeper, sometimes even just in the sidewall. I've never experienced any ghost targets with the Nox either, there is always something metallic there no matter what depth. ::g
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by fred » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:05 am

mitch wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:23 pm
i think he meant pinpointing with the detector before digging, not with a ‘pinpointer’ in the hole. But yes i always pinpoint before i dig, i think its a matter of learning the machine more than anything. going out to beach again soon so will take on board all comments. many thanks.

The whole issue of pinpointing is confusing to talk about because it is often not clear whether people are simply pinpointing a target in the ground, whether they are using the built in Pinpointing funtion of the Nox or whether they are using a hand held probe (often also known as a pinpointer). :-/

On beaches I always pinpoint in my normal detecting mode using the Minelab Wriggle. I seldom use the built in Pinpointing function and I only use a hand held probe when the target is out of the hole. :D

Interestingly on rereading the original post you also say that you dig a bit deeper than the target. Does this mean that you are using the target depth indicator?

Finally although I use Beach 1 too (with the 800) I would make a few adjustments to it anyway to make it more stable. Also remember that the manual suggests using Beach 2 if the Nox is unstable in the wet.
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Re: vanishing signal help

Post by mitch » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:32 am

Hi again, yes Fred i always take a look at my screen to help me as much as i can as i have come straight from a cheap detector to the nox 600. I have just been reading up on things on a great metal detecting site with lots of info and along with the helpful comments on here i should be better next time out. I get a signal, look at the id, look at the depth, wiggle to roughly locate, then use built in pinpoint feature, then dig. i try and dig just above what the nox tells me then put the nox back over the hole incase ive not gone deep enough, if not ill take a couple more spades out, then sweep the pile. Im a bit wary of the idea of me pushing the item deeper as it was hard packed wet sand and cant imagine how it can go deeper without touching it, and even if this was true then i would still pick up the signal when i put the nox back over it as it was only about 10 inches in the first place and i believe the nox is able of much more than that. However i have recently found out that 1, i failed to ground balance first, and 2, i seeep too quickly.
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