I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

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I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Saffron » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:21 am

Sorry mods, I know the forum rules and the one about "Personal attacks", however I can prove it was their fault and that they are to blame.

Here is the evidence -
9 acre field
Welsh beaches

With that evidence, and I can provide more if required (both for these 2 main offenders, but also for some of their accomplices if needed), I firmly believe that I am fully justified in blaming them for having just purchased the Nox 15" coil from the MDF shop.

What else could I do?.

However, being serious what I did notice was that purchasing the coil via the MDF site was £19 (nearly 10%) cheaper than going directly to the sellers web site. On the Equinox handbook thread I also see that SuperRed said that it was cheaper on the MDF shop than he had seen advertised else where. So it does again prove what bargains forum members can get by using the MDF shop.

FYI: I have used it a few times in the past with no issues.

Evan



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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Bors » Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:50 pm

Not having the 15" coil myself, I can only go on what I read on the forums. So please don`t start labelling me a negative person, after all, most of the time we DO rely on what others tell us or what we read on metal detecting forums so it's not just a killjoy jerk reaction or indeed a put down for put-down's sake.
Right having excused myself, I`ve concluded that from the overall opinions of all the gathered information I`ve read up to now , its been abundantly clear that you get little if ANY extra depth from the 15" coil. Now I inquired from a couple of people why do they think that is and one told me he thought it was because of the shape of the near enough Elliptical coil. One said the 15" `s length measurements gave you the coverage distance, and the 12" width governed the depth. Now being that the Std Equinox stock coil is 11" there`s not going to be any recognizable depth difference of note, and this appears to be a large number of detectorists verdicts who have one, or who have owned one in the past verdict.
While I`m fully aware that there`s going to be some who will not accept that or reject that, it seems the overall conclusion by percentage is that there is only a bigger ground coverage advantage in having the 15" coil.
It would, of course, be interesting to hear from saffron if he could in a few months time give his assessment to see what he thinks of it .
Not being a fan of big coils myself it probably won`t make a lot of difference either way but, I always live in hope that one day a big coil "might" be worth investing in, IF it`s going to truly be to my advantage if I bought one, but I just cannot see myself paying out around £200 for adding on extra weight onto something I`ve strived to lighten ! Plus, put the Nox out of balance, and worse still bottom heavy, so I have to ask what is the REAL benefit of putting on a 15" coil?

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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Saffron » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:33 pm

Bors, do not worry I am not going to call you negative for giving what you condsider to be perfectly valid comments.

From what I have heard and seen there might be a slight gain in depth. But as you say this is probably minimal. Most importantly though this is not the reason I got the coil, so IF there is a depth gain that is just an added advantage.

I have posted on a few threads where questions have been asked about if the poster should get a new larger coil or not. I normally direct them to the Nel Coil site where it compares the different coils, and I work on the theory that this would be fairly accurate for other makes. So I cconsider it a very useful information. http://nel-coils.com/index.php/en/

I believe that ALL detector manufacturers provide what they consider to be the best possible allrounder coil with their machines. Therefore when anybody gets a new machine I believe that they should stick to this for a decent length of time before even thinking if they migt be better off with a different coil. But in certain circumstances a differenct coil, smaller or larger, could be superior to the standard coil.

ALL coils have pros and cons. As a general rule:-
Smaller coils are better for small shallow targets, heavily iron infested sites (less chance of masking of good targets) and for getting in awkard places. But the down side is limited ground coverage.
Larger coils most significantly provide extra ground coverage, can provide extra depth especially for larger targets (admittedly not always). On the downside not so good on heavily iron infested sites (masking) and the extra weight which can unbalance the machine.

I am aware that the Nox 15" coil is slightly heavier, but weight is not an issue. However having previously used a larger coil on another machine I am aware that it can unbalance the machine and this is normally more of an issue than the actual weight difference. Not ideal, and I do not know to what extent, however by the number of people using the 15"coil I am assumung that this issue is acceptable to most.


In my case my permissions are nearly all old, very unproductive!, pasture which in most cases does not have too much iron, so the extra ground coverage is the reason I am getting the coil.
So to answer your question in my case 'the REAL benefit of putting on a 15" coil' is purely for the extra ground coverage, which means in the same time detecting I will cover slightly more ground which hopefully will mean the odd extra find.

Evan

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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Bors » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:53 pm

Quote Evan,...." In my case my permissions are nearly all old, very unproductive!, pasture which in most cases does not have too much iron, so the extra ground coverage is the reason I am getting the coil.
So to answer your question in my case 'the REAL benefit of putting on a 15" coil' is purely for the extra ground coverage, which means in the same time detecting I will cover slightly more ground which hopefully will mean the odd extra find.".

A very good reason for your requirement then Evan ,and one which I would accept as a perfectly valid reason for you to get the 15".
I do sincerely hope you asses it in a few months when you`ve had a good stretch of using & hopefully testing it,as I feel the more people relay their user opinion of the coil, the better.
The more the merrier so to speak. ::g

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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by littleboot » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:35 pm

That pair. Don't blame you for blaming 'em. The amount of money they have helped ease out of pockets on ML's behalf doesn't bear thinking about. All I can say is I suspect they have shares.
I won't be getting a bigger coil...I already have muscles like popeye and I don't want to look like an Eastern European hammer thrower. Good luck with your new acquisition. Hope it does the biz.
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by SuperRed » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:51 pm

Interesting observations:

I also bought the 15” primarily for the additional coverage (much of my searching is on pasture), but I also felt from early observations by the usual suspects it would offer a little more depth. Every inch counts (no comments please), and particularly on pasture. I’m wary of comments regarding depth on other forums and slightly sceptical regarding findings: air tests are a waste of time, garden test beds are fine for trying new settings, etc and can give an indication of achievable depth, but unless comparisons are made in the field/conditions you are searching they are pretty meaningless. I found a tiny Roman grot at depth in an area I had been over many times after I fitted the 15”. Does that mean the 15” goes deeper? Does that mean I just missed it on previous occasions? Was it the settings I changed for the 15”? I have no idea. But the 15” does give me greater coverage in a shorter time, with very few potential drawbacks. I wonder what criteria/evidence people use when giving opinions. The weight/balance issues are also overstated in my opinion. I simply shortened my stem by one notch and added the holster for my pinpointer behind the arm cuff for a little balance. Well worth the money for me for the extra coverage, and my go-to for pasture.

Horses for courses. Again, I bought the 6” to suit my personal circumstances. Not only because I have old buildings on two of my fields with a lot of debris, but because one in particular has brambles and undergrowth in areas, and one of my ploughed fields seems to permanently have stubble. Works brilliantly for me, so again worth the cost.

Brad
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Blackadder43 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:57 pm

This comment is unrelated machine wise but related in a round about sort of way

When i owned the Etrac i had the huge coil for it
Cant remember the size
There is no way on earth i can tell you whether it actualy detected deeper as that would take a lot of prep to test
But what i can tell you is i could run my machine at max sensitivity and it stayed stable, something on my fields i could never achieve with my standard coil, without it getting too sparky
The large coil was much more stable at more extreme settings

If the same applys to the Nox then you have an improvement ::g
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Bors » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:14 pm

Quote SuperRed ,..." I simply shortened my stem by one notch."

I think the problem when you do that, is when you shorten your stem even by just a little, you then tend to haunch your shoulders that little bit more forward in the attempt to lean forward to take up the shortened length of stem which to my way of looking at it, can off balance your body .
OK I know might seem a small amount, whereas say before you were relatively upright when detecting, shortening the stem then stoops you forward that bit more, but enough to bend the top part of your back that bit more, so for every what might seem a " little adjustment " at the time , it can cause a backlash further on to which I`ve just mentioned is solving one thing, but adding the problem to somewhere else, which might not at first seem relative ,but could in time become noticeable in the form of an aching back more , and little known unto you, its because of something you did a while ago.
Probably not any big deal to some, but It's worth giving it some thought as backs are notoriously finicky, and more so as you age. Metal detecting will seek out and punish any weaknesses in your body :-/

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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Ladybird66 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:44 pm

u;@ Yes my feet rl;

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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Easylife » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:55 am

Saffron wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:21 am
I can prove it was their fault and that they are to blame.

Here is the evidence -
9 acre field
Welsh beaches

With that evidence, and I can provide more if required (both for these 2 main offenders, but also for some of their accomplices if needed), I firmly believe that I am fully justified in blaming them for having just purchased the Nox 15" coil from the MDF shop.
Evan
I plead guilty as charged but what a killer combination it is in my book, the extra ground coverage is a great advantage but the extra 'so called slight' depth can be quite a game changer on old pasture for bonus finds. ::g :D
Nox 800, 15" coil & Garrett carrot.
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Easylife » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:28 am

Bors wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:50 pm
Not having the 15" coil myself, I can only go on what I read on the forums. So please don`t start labelling me a negative person, after all, most of the time we DO rely on what others tell us or what we read on metal detecting forums so it's not just a killjoy jerk reaction or indeed a put down for put-down's sake.
Right having excused myself, I`ve concluded that from the overall opinions of all the gathered information I`ve read up to now , its been abundantly clear that you get little if ANY extra depth from the 15" coil. Now I inquired from a couple of people why do they think that is and one told me he thought it was because of the shape of the near enough Elliptical coil. One said the 15" `s length measurements gave you the coverage distance, and the 12" width governed the depth. Now being that the Std Equinox stock coil is 11" there`s not going to be any recognizable depth difference of note, and this appears to be a large number of detectorists verdicts who have one, or who have owned one in the past verdict.
While I`m fully aware that there`s going to be some who will not accept that or reject that, it seems the overall conclusion by percentage is that there is only a bigger ground coverage advantage in having the 15" coil.
It would, of course, be interesting to hear from saffron if he could in a few months time give his assessment to see what he thinks of it .
Not being a fan of big coils myself it probably won`t make a lot of difference either way but, I always live in hope that one day a big coil "might" be worth investing in, IF it`s going to truly be to my advantage if I bought one, but I just cannot see myself paying out around £200 for adding on extra weight onto something I`ve strived to lighten ! Plus, put the Nox out of balance, and worse still bottom heavy, so I have to ask what is the REAL benefit of putting on a 15" coil?

Sorry Bors but I just found that so funny, but as you say, your comments are solely based on just hearsay rather than on any actual personal use.
I agree that the 15” coil does throw the Nox even further out of balance by adding more weight. It was not too bad for a few months but then my elbow tendinitis flared up a bit so I just attached a simple home made bungee sling to make it hover almost effortlessly. Some other people choose to buy expensive carbon shafts just to save about 100 grams, but a simple bungee sling takes far more weight off your arm than that, I'd say by at least 500 grams.

Since purchasing the 15” coil and doing comparative tests myself against the stock 11” coil I can say that it gives about a 2” depth increase over all targets which on my pasture it quite a bonus. The increased ground coverage is about perfect too as it's quite easy to miss targets on some ground with even the standard 11” coil. It also defies the old adage that big coils can't see small finds by regularly pulling them from incredible depths that sometimes just does not seem possible. I mean a 1cm target from 10 inches deep! Surely there is some magickery involved, but I'm not complaining at all, I like it lots.
The standard coil is a good all-rounder but still unbalances the detector somewhat, a carbon fibre coil would be much better. The 15” coil surprisingly still seems to do a reasonable job amongst iron infestation and runs quite stable at Sensitivity 24 or 25 on my ground. Experienced users will only need a hint of something sounding half good regardless of settings to dig it anyway.
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Easylife » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:31 am

littleboot wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:35 pm
That pair. Don't blame you for blaming 'em. The amount of money they have helped ease out of pockets on ML's behalf doesn't bear thinking about. All I can say is I suspect they have shares.
I won't be getting a bigger coil...I already have muscles like popeye and I don't want to look like an Eastern European hammer thrower. Good luck with your new acquisition. Hope it does the biz.
Gee Jan, It would be nice to have shares in ML but I'm only being honest from user experience. :D Have you fallen out with me? x;
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Easylife » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:34 am

Bors wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:14 pm
Quote SuperRed ,..." I simply shortened my stem by one notch."

I think the problem when you do that, is when you shorten your stem even by just a little, you then tend to haunch your shoulders that little bit more forward in the attempt to lean forward to take up the shortened length of stem which to my way of looking at it, can off balance your body .
OK I know might seem a small amount, whereas say before you were relatively upright when detecting, shortening the stem then stoops you forward that bit more, but enough to bend the top part of your back that bit more, so for every what might seem a " little adjustment " at the time , it can cause a backlash further on to which I`ve just mentioned is solving one thing, but adding the problem to somewhere else, which might not at first seem relative ,but could in time become noticeable in the form of an aching back more , and little known unto you, its because of something you did a while ago.
Probably not any big deal to some, but It's worth giving it some thought as backs are notoriously finicky, and more so as you age. Metal detecting will seek out and punish any weaknesses in your body :-/
Before even using a bungee sling I had shortened the stem by one notch for a better balance with the 15” coil. I know where you are coming from but I never feel the need to overstretch with the 15” coil at all. I completely agree that bad posture can cause further complications. ::g
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by fred » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:18 am

Another one guilty as charged. ::g Given the runaway success of the Nox I really wish that I did have shares in Minelab, or at least distribution rights. :D

As an early Nox enthusiast it has been a nerve wracking journey watching it gradually win over the cynics and doubters. Mind you Minelab didn't exactly inspire confidence in it with their botched launch campaign.

I am with Easylife on the extra depth being about 2 inches when everything is right, possibly even a tad more on some beaches. Despite this I actually prefer the stock coil for all the reasons discussed above but still often use the 15 inch coil, especially on beaches. Remember to put the Response speed up a notch if you find pinpointing awkward.

After 18 months of pounding with the Nox and stock some of my sites are becoming a tad quiet. As soon as the ground is wet again I'll fire up the 15 inch again and give them another pounding. Mind you on land I've come to the conclusion that it's not so simple as larger coils find everything. Even after the larger coil has been through the stock and the six inch will still find stuff it (or I) missed. Exactly how much is due to experience, slight differences in the ground or the approach angle, the position of Jupiter or whatever I really have no idea. ::g
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by littleboot » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:29 am

Easylife wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:31 am
littleboot wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:35 pm
That pair. Don't blame you for blaming 'em. The amount of money they have helped ease out of pockets on ML's behalf doesn't bear thinking about. All I can say is I suspect they have shares.
I won't be getting a bigger coil...I already have muscles like popeye and I don't want to look like an Eastern European hammer thrower. Good luck with your new acquisition. Hope it does the biz.
Gee Jan, It would be nice to have shares in ML but I'm only being honest from user experience. :D Have you fallen out with me? x;
:)) It's my stab at humour, me old duck. Of course I know its your honest opinion....That Fred however.... ;) =))
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by SuperRed » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:32 am

Bors wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:14 pm
Quote SuperRed ,..." I simply shortened my stem by one notch."

I think the problem when you do that, is when you shorten your stem even by just a little, you then tend to haunch your shoulders that little bit more forward in the attempt to lean forward to take up the shortened length of stem which to my way of looking at it, can off balance your body .
I take your point Bors, and much like swinging any heavier machine it does of course depend upon the individual and any arm/shoulder difficulties. But the slight shortening of the stem doesn't cause me to stoop... it just brings the coil a little closer to my feet.

Brad
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Bors » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:52 am

Quote Ian,......... " Some other people choose to buy expensive carbon shafts just to save about 100 grams, but a simple bungee sling takes far more weight off your arm than that, I'd say by at least 500 grams.

Ah! but Ian that's not quite the same as getting rid " entirely of weight" as you can do by lightening the Nox with a carbon fibre shaft is it ?
When you use a bungee your NOT taking weight away, you're simply just distributing the weight, which is completely different to taking the weight off as you do with CF shaft, so there is indeed a distinct difference between the two. Your still " carrying "that weight using a bungee, It hasn`t just miraculously vanished.The carbon fibre shaft is without doubt for me anyway a much better appliance to put on .

Quote Ian,..." Since purchasing the 15” coil and doing comparative tests myself against the stock 11” coil I can say that it gives about a 2” depth increase overall targets which on my pasture it quite a bonus. "

Well with the greatest respect Ian that's not the story I`ve been hearing reports as far as the 15" coils are doing in my area. Overall the bigger percentage of the word on the street is, no noticeably bigger difference in depth worth mentioning, only the bigger increase in ground coverage, and these are people who bought the 15" coil and now sold them on or are going to.
I can only tell it as I find.I`d truly like to be able to say differently.

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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by fred » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:33 pm

Bors wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:52 am


Quote Ian,..." Since purchasing the 15” coil and doing comparative tests myself against the stock 11” coil I can say that it gives about a 2” depth increase overall targets which on my pasture it quite a bonus. "

Well with the greatest respect Ian that's not the story I`ve been hearing reports as far as the 15" coils are doing in my area. Overall the bigger percentage of the word on the street is, no noticeably bigger difference in depth worth mentioning, only the bigger increase in ground coverage, and these are people who bought the 15" coil and now sold them on or are going to.
I can only tell it as I find.I`d truly like to be able to say differently.

There is definitely some extra depth to be had but it will depend upon how you set up and use your machine. Fortunately I am sure that someone will happily snap up bargain price Nox 15 inch coils. :D
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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by Saffron » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:27 pm

First of all well done to Fred and Easylife for taking my initial post "blaming" them for my purchase in the lighthearted way it was meant ::g Although their finds did "encourage" me to get the new coil (not that I needed much encouragement!).

A couple of users I had spoken to said that they believed the coil gave extra depth, and when I get experienced users like Fred and Easylife that have used it for a significant time saying it gives an extra 2 inches with respect to Bors I am more inclined to take notice of that than second hand reports. For all I know these negative reports might have been from new users who gave it a quick try and just had a "bad day".
As SuperRed said "Every extra inch counts", so this could be an added bonus on my well worked unproductive pasture. Although as said I bought it mainly for the extra ground coverage.

I am aware that shortening the stem a notch can help with a bigger coil, and additionally I already have a bungee (never used!) that if I did find I was having an issue with the weight / balance I could use. So this issue does not worry me.

Earlier this morning I had a message from the MDF shop to say that it had been dispatched so it should be here tomorrow. ::g

Very many thanks to all that have contributed to the thread, especially those that have used the 15" coil, its been much appreciated.

I look forward to soon being able to give my own views.

Evan

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Re: I blame Fred and Easylife! / MDF shop

Post by dirtdigger1 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:46 pm

I've used the 15" coil and my father has been using it as his only coil for many many months.

Depth, I can tell you for a fact....it's no deeper than stock coil.

Coverage is better, obviously.

As far as unbalancing the Equinox and/or being to heavy......well, my father is in his 80s and he can swing that Equinox 15" coil for hours and has never ever even mentioned a sore arm, or back or wrist etc etc.

Trust me, for the size of the coil, it is AMAZING how light it is!!

Would I buy one? Nope.

I find the 11" stock coil is best all-rounder.

Matt

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