Any idea of age of this Italian case?

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ajb6864
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Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by ajb6864 » Thu May 09, 2019 12:03 pm

Hi all

I found a shell case yesterday which I understand is manufactured by Società Metallurgica Italiana, Campo Tizzoro, Italy.

It was in the sea, approximately 2-3 feet deep and under 6-8 inches of pebbly sand. It was found with an Equinox 600 in modified Beach 1 settings.

I'm unsure of it's age, but would hazard a guess that it is post-WW2?

Also, if someone could confirm the calibre or meaning of the other headstamp details it would be appreciated.
Shell1.jpg
Shell2.jpg
The coast itself was used for military gun boat exercises up until the 1980's and I have found mainly smaller shell cases (100's) along with mortar debris, but no other case of this calibre.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Alan
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Bors
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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by Bors » Thu May 09, 2019 1:11 pm

Hi Alan , doing a bit of research I come up with it could be a .......

Carcano Italian rifle cartridge.
. Second thoughts maybe not then :D .
Last edited by Bors on Thu May 09, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by GeorgeMK » Thu May 09, 2019 1:29 pm

Not 6.5mm Carcano, it is a 20x138mm B developed by Solothurn in the 1930’s and used (amongst other uses) in the Italian Breda M35 cannon.

B in the cartridge designation signifies a ‘belted’ case, the belt being the raised band in front of the extraction groove.

20 indicating 20mm.

Italian ammunition is not my strong point, but I suspect that 2 over 940 is either month/year or lot/year and that it is 1940 manufacture.

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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by Bors » Thu May 09, 2019 1:32 pm

Yeah Its a bit difficult without measuring the case by hand , and seeing the shape of the bullet head would have helped had it been present. I`m sure it will get pinned down sooner or later maybe .

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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by Muddyknee » Thu May 09, 2019 1:42 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/20%C3%97138mmB
Most notably used in the S18/1000 anti tank rifle,probably the peak design of such a weapon.
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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by Bors » Thu May 09, 2019 1:46 pm

I think now maybe George MK and Muddy are nearer the mark. ::g

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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by GeorgeMK » Thu May 09, 2019 2:02 pm

There is a little on Italian 20x138mmB on this page, http://212.178.67.161/avx/sites/flak2cm ... _sub_cat=0

There is a somewhat similar (but not the same) SMI headstamp if you click on Italian HE-T Round and scroll down the pictures.

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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by Koala » Thu May 09, 2019 2:24 pm

Shot in the dark :D
1940 ?

UK date stamps are normally 1940 or 40 although I believe Europe often use 3 digits eg 940 could the 2 be month ?

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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by ajb6864 » Thu May 09, 2019 2:32 pm

Thank you all for your replies.

Ammo is not my strong point as you can tell by me missing the obvious 20mm calibre!

Some really interesting reading in there as well.

It seems it was the ammo of choice for the premier anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons of their time.

I'll add those resources to my reference list as well.

Kindest regards all.

Alan

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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by Muddyknee » Thu May 09, 2019 2:40 pm

Interesting to note that the round hasn't actually been fired,yet the damage to the rim suggests it detonated without a breech around it.
Could of course been damaged by being buried in the sea bed,but the rest looks in perfect condition.
Only other way I could see that happening is from an external source of heat,ie fire,a 'cook off' as we tankies called it.
May be nothing,but might be worth investigating whether any Kreigsmarine activity took place there during WW2.
Some E-Boots carried Bredas.
Could of course just been dumped there,but something apparently made it 'cook off'.
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Re: Any idea of age of this Italian case?

Post by ajb6864 » Thu May 09, 2019 3:10 pm

Hi Muddyknee.

Yes, I spotted the fact that it had not been fired.

I find lots of smaller bullets that are in the same condition and unfired. Quite a lot still 'cling on' to the bullet, despite how badly the case has perished around it.

When I get chance I'll post up photos of a few of them as well, because there are some that I can't ID anyway.

Thanks again to all for your replies.

I'm loving this place! ::g

Alan

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